11.26.07
so where are we the UN survey said different well the UN survey was about living standards not deaths the un
janet doesn’t have to fire me, give me a large enough cheque and I’ll leave voluntarily
noob…that will work…for 20-30 days
money for nothing. its the donkey way
how about a hip-check
they were driving down the rd at 70 miles and hr… and has has many complaints and other things going on
JanetB awwwwww nvr good eltting someone go i no vry awkward
being late every single day
a delivery guy?
Nemes, yeah it is cry.. yes
janet how did the firing go
t0tgiglz.. he took it well
a brit accent should be a hit locally
but we have been going over his behavior for a month yesterday was the final straw
Good day SAh!…….¿que chingar? what did he do Janet?? LOL
scroll
70 mph….. so? a bit slow…
in a school zone?
yes
CryHavoc - oh donr get me excited about that lol - i’d give anything to get into the states and employed
heh
lol
only way to avoid stray rounds
JanetBw would b the perfect boss 2 hehe
if drove slow..he would have to return fire
the only solution to iraq is the 3 state solution, kurds get their state , Shia get most of iraq, and Sunni get i slice of the pie , this is the only way !
n00b…then Turkey erases the Kurds from Turkey….
JanetB yours is a flourists biz right? if i recall
n00b, so the pro iranian shia get control over most of the oil, you want that?
I really tried with this kid, for a month.. and I just could not take it anymore, when I have to back track a 40 minute run.. that he had take 3 hrs on and had only made one delivery
and Iranian shia fundies erase the Sunnis then shari’a
and then I see him driving my van, like he is on a race track
JanetB ohh not good for biz is that
how old is this kid?
I was like no.. I do not need to lose my business for him
boy racer bouncing ur biz van around the streets
cry` 24
BIG no no
even the jokers at fair stop at 100k iraqi dead.
aha..theres the problem…..
seem to be centered on the lancet report, whatever that is.
CryHavoc.. no I have had drivers 21, with more sense
get someone sober in their 40s…..
darthburg. would u like to explain why the John Hopkins University study is wrong? what mistakes did they make?
JanetB u well did the right thing way 2 go girl
thanks
they will see the job as money in their pocket… good job JanetB
CryHavoc.. I would like to get someone retired, they don’t want to work here
is it part time work?
yes about 30 hrs a week
go fo some male in their 40s…..here is why…
janetb you could do temps maybe
JustinFra i have no information on that, Hopkins did not come up in a general search. still looking.
that way you can change at will..but sometimes temps are flakey
they will want to make money….and have the common sense to drive sanely
CryHavoc.. someone in there 40’s has a job from 9 to 5
not always…
darthburg, the John Hopkins University did the research for the 2 studies that have been peer reviewed and published in The Lancet, UK’s leading medical journal
my friend Russ worked 3 jobs at one point
JustinFra the lancet study is indeed cited here.
darthburg.. and here it is for you http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/images/10/11/human.cost.of.war.pdf
no more delivery jobs for me though….
well, hopefully I will find some on.. that has a brain to replace him
it destroys the car
CryHavoc.. I have a shop van
I think, as usual, Justin tends to look only for stuff validating his preconceptions. .like the idea that ‘war never works and is always bad’. You know, like WWII was.
ahh thats decent
they do not use there car
timur.. did i ever say that?
no, it’s what I’m observing tho
hahah, the hopkins study said some 544K are dead. thats five times higher than anyone else. No Wonder you are citing that one.
and timur. for your delight and edification, here is the only criticism of the John Hopkins UNi study I haev seen by an epidimiologist working in Iraq http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/10/11/135644/20
consider the source of criticism…
that’s nice, but see, I don’t care, really.
darthburg, i cited 2, the iraqi health ministry person who said 150,000 and the JH Uni report in the lancet
gee, Hopkins numbers are four times the UN’s on the high side, and 13 times the Iraqi Body COunt website on the low end
we don’t need more troops like McCain says and we don’t need to retreat like James Baker and his saudi interests say , we need to use the forces we have and kick ass !
timur.. u don’t care about learning more? quelle surpris
John Hopkins is a reputale think tank
and I don’t buy their count, and I’ve already read it in summary, and .. if they count the Sunni-Shi’a deaths as a function of the US actions, then.. that’s bad methodology
n00b its the dems who want a draft…
John Hopkins University is a university that carries out research which is then peer reviewed, seems a bit unfair to call it a think tank
so they can mire us in other places
JustinFra I’d say the 150k number is probably more accurate. just by judging where everyone else is at. Hopkins is clearly on the high end. Iraqi body count on the low.
CryHavoc, if I had to put money on who would call a draft
no, I just don’t care that a faulty study that includes Iraqis killed by other Iraqis attributes those deaths to the SU.
Justin….JH is a plethora of things
US *
it would be on the dems in ur countrry
cutting edge surgery too
and, as far as knowing stuff.. I know a lot more about the Mideast than you, so.
4 sure
darthburg, the iraqi body count by definition is wrong, they only count casualties reported in 2 western media sources
Does it include Iraqis killed by insurgents?
yes
OK
lol
Timur…Justin is from Europe some place
yeah, the U
most iraqis are killed by insurgents or death squads now
JustinFra I am aware, its still the low end number for that there very reason.
cutting edge surgery?
US is behind Shiites killing each other and Sunnis, and also, Sunnis killing each other and Shiites
were? lol
we’re behind it all! omg!
oh, so we get to count ALL deaths then?
Johns Hopkins is a surgeicl technique pioneer
dearthburg, iraq body count by definition undercount the death toll
i could do with makingmy hips more prominant :brows
well no wonder John Hopkins came up with 500k +
Is any newspaper posting any article that says that james baker’s law firm represent the saudi govt, ? Can we trust the word of a foreign agent ?
but that report sounds like it came out of a think tank
JustinFra dude, when i agree with you, you do not need to keep arguin.
Nemes…heart Surgery I think
i am well aware of the Iraqi body count’s source of casulties.
darthburg, just reiterating my point, but ok. and the guy at DailyKos thinks the John Hopkins Uni study death toll is too high too, just havent; seen any explanation as to what it actually did wrong. which means, maybe its right
lol DailyKos is saying its too high?? LOLOL
JustinFra i deal with facts. and the fact is, if someone dies of a hangnail in Iraq, you can not use that as a tool to bash America.
DailyK can not turn study into something for which Bush can be blamed
cryhavoc, an epidimiologist working in iraq wrote a diary for dailykos http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/10/11/135644/20
DailyKos is not quite beneath contempt…. but close
darthburg, wise up, the fuck up in iraq was the direct result of US policy
JustinFra I do not cite right wing blogs, so do not be spouting off with BS from Daily Kos.
hmm.. darthburg and cryhavoc are epidimiologists working in iraq?
JustinFra do not imsult me simply because i am not ready to surrender like you are. JustinFra if anyone needs to wise up here, its you.
lol darth
lol darthburg, u go ahead and educate me. lololol
i said that hours ago
JustinFra to educate someone, they first have to admit they need learning.
interesing…Justin is from the UK…
yeah and his main sourse is the news LOL
JustinFra you do not strike me as the “Open minded” type.
Nemes a UK Factioner I bet
darthburg, i know a tiny fraction of what I would like to know. but i doubt u are going to teach anyone anything
Justin I mean ..not Nemes
a uk factioner?
yes http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=red+factioner
and what, pray tell, is a uk factioner?
that is a definition of one
JustinFra as I said, you have a closed mind. you are to set in your ways to realize I teach people stuff everydamn day. I also learn stuff everydamn day. not something YOU do. clearly.
a red factioner is a uk factioner? must have come as a shock to people around the world
recommends JustinFra try reading this book….. “The principles and functionality of Geo-Politics”
darthburg, well today u learned that the John Hopkins university carried out 2 studies in iraq which were peer reviewed and published in The Lancet
well..thre are two main factions out of Labour and tory
lol
the commies are the red factioners..
cryhavoc, I’ll tack that to the end of my list of books to read.. just behind Ulysses
JustinFra and as such, said studies are far and BEYOND the highest number of iraqi deaths.
and the birch society righties are the fascists
Ah, the Hopkins study with the ridiculously low number of cluster points leading to hilariously high extrapolations.
JustinFra which is exactly why you use it.
Justin…I recommend you read it first…
darthburg, how many studies into the iraqi death tolls do u think there have been?
it will help you grasp the concept of welt politik
yes,
JustinFra judging from the search results, no less than ten, obviously more
Ulysses provides wonderful insight into Iraqi history and politics.
the UK has no tolerance for any factions at all
cluster points
I recommend JustinFra learn a little more about how to conduct a proper household survey before staking too much in claims made by a defective report.
darthburg.. not really, the UN carried out a lifestyle survey 3 years ago, it has a small section on the death toll
how many samples were used in the john hopkins study
timur, the point is that Ulysses is too boring for normal humans like me to read
JustinFra see? your mind is closed. you all ready have all the answers you need. you do not WANT any more. thats sad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceKcLwZrQ1o
fallllout, if u have a good crit of the John Hopkins Uni study i’d be delighted to see it
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=elephstan
ok its a deal
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=liberaland
fallout seems like he’s just talking out of his ass
truth is stranger than fiction.
Justin…hehe good luck…
I’ve heard some good quotes from Ulysses and Joyce, mroe generally
Johns Hopkins is sort of like the NE Journal of Medicine…
JustinFra will just ignore that which he does not agree with anyway, Fallllout is wasting his time.
mostly beyond reproach
timur… and have u read Ulysses?
and Scylla with her fearsome maw…..nd charybdis with its hung’ring jaws….(sic)
I find it amusing that despite how the estimate of 665,000 Iraqi deaths caused by violence since the war began represents quadruple the highest monthly rate as tracked by the UN and is 13 times larger than the total compiled by the Iraq Body Count group, its treated as gospel.
Ulysses was an easy read
excerpts only, I’m afriad
darthburg, the UN are not actually in Iraq counting bodies or carrying out death rate surveys
iraq body count just measures the deaths reported by the media
timur.. so now u see my point, Ulysses, excellent book, that is just to boring to read
1 little 2 little 3 daed iraqis…
well, can’t judge if I haven’t read it.
4, 5 665,000 countings a bit wacky
“It’s not a precise count, and the margin of error is wide.” New York Times
I know what books I’ve read that I like
gotta make the report to keep us on trach-y..
what is the margin of error what is it, like 3%?
timur. i have it sitting in my study, unread. bought it on my last trip to Dublin, just never quite got round to reading it
where’d you get it, Trinity Col.?
Justinfra…you ever get to any used bookstores out there?
darthburg, of course its not a precise count, the whole point is that there can be no precise point
it is an estimate and not a precise count, and researchers acknowledged a margin of error that ranged from 426,369 to 793,663 deaths.
timur, stayed in a hotel about 200 yards from Trinity College
nice
the margin of error doesn’t look that bad
no cryhavoc, too busy trying the pubs and going to the rugby international
have you read any Frank McCourt
JustinFra its funny, that little fact does not stop you from using the numbers to attack what you see as American Agression.
he wrote angela’s ashes?
yeah, but I read Teacher Man, which ruled on recommendation from a colleague funny, insightful, powerful
darthburg, i am more using it to attack american incompetence, already said that most of the deaths are caused by other iraqis
Here’s a good critique: http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/dveathby.htm
JustinFra very well, I sit corrected. you are willing to use imprecise numbers as long as its bad for america.
pretty much
ok fallout.. thank you.. and here is one for you http://www.iraqanalysis.org/mortality/441#faq1628
Though of course I agree in principle with Darth… in that I am wasting my time to the extent that I expect you to be convinced
I call em as i see em
if the understanding of geopolitics derives in large part from one’s individual philosophical outlook, then perhaps ne’er the twain shall meet.
fallout, your article does not actually have much statistical content. its main argument seems to be that the iraqi death toll reported by john hopkins is too low and preferring a higher UN death toll instead, but the UN didn’t carry out any actual research within Iraq to get theri higher death toll figure
i am well aware some of my political views will never be “Met”
thats the death toll prior to invasion, i am referring to there
yeah, i do not know anyone who is shocked the deaths went up after invasion
darthburg, u are missing the point. the John Hopkins report takes the death rate prior to the invasion from teh death rate after invasion to work out the excess deaths
It doesn’t actually use any death rates. It makes both up.
JustinFra I did not miss the point at all, I am well aware of where the numbers come from.
dstewart the death rates are calculated from the surveys
Well, I can’t even read your article. Some goofy HTML or (or perhaps bad implementation by my browser) puts a column right through the page.
DStewart u right wing extremist how u doing hehe
And bingo. According to the survey, Iraqis before the war were dying at the rate of just five in 1000 people each year. The death rate among infants was around the average for the region . about 29 in 1000. But what evidence we have tells us these pre-war death rates were actually much higher. Dated United Nations figures suggest the overall death rate was well over seven in every 1000 . or close to, if not higher than, the present rate of 7.9 in every 1000 that the Lancet survey suggests.
sorry fallout, what browser are u using?
Fallllout you will notice however, that we were right, instead of acknowledging the criticism, JustinFra just panned it, as he does with any “fact” that fucks up his world view.
But even more persuasive are 2002 figures from UNICEF, which in a much bigger survey of 24,000 households found the infant mortality rate in Iraq before the war was actually a tragic 108 deaths per 1000 infants. This is more than three times higher than the Lancet survey claims was the case . and double what even the survey claims is the infant mortality rate today.
bun bun problem there is that the UN were not in Iraq to calculate those death tolls
neither was johns hopkins for prewar
FF2 shows the article fine
purpdank wants a voice purpdank_ even
of course of course…
and bun bun, the Iraqi living conditions survey ua re referring to asked only a couple of question about deaths, which are more vague than the John Hopkins survey
JustinFra has an excuse for everything, but won’t accept any excuses. your typical close minded hypocrit.
But I’m really not getting emotional or excited about anything tonight. I’m really just here to stretch my typing fingers a bit in between bites of Ben and Jerry’s.
lol darthburg.. hmm.. research into a subject is viewed by you as “excuses”?
we arent talking about the living conditions study.. we are talking about the prewar death numbers johns hopkins used
JustinFra you missed that point.
bunbun.. and as i pointed out the UN were not in iraq to calculate the iraqi death rate prewar
The surveying techniques JH “study” used have been blown apart by numerous criticisms, from selection biases, to insufficient numbers of surveys, to a lack of safeguards against duplicates, to the reliability of the survey takers themselves. There’s nothing to support the JH “study.” It is agitprop dressed up.
nor was johns hopikins
bottom line…..a shitload of people are dying in iraq who cares about exact numbers
as _I_ pointed out as well
its a lot
JustinFra my point was you have plenty of excuses to make the numbers high, but will not accept excuses that show the opposite. and you are consistent.
hey
so you belive the johns hopkins pre-war numbers that they weren’t there for but not the UN numbers that the UN wasn’t there for.. a bit of a double standard isnt it?
i think we can all agree a shitload of people are dying in iraq, fighting over the exact number is stupid
bunbun, nope, the John Hopkins study calculated the death rate prior to the invasion from their own survey, they asked for death reports prior to the invasion as well as after the invasion
so justinfra they were there before the war to get those pre-war numbers?
bun-bun if it were not for double standards, people like JustinFra would have no standards at all.
because thats the criteria you are applying to the UN numbers
darth!
darthburg, i already posted the article by the iraqi based epidimiologist saying he thought the figure was too high
Swigert!
i think we can all agree a shitload of people are dying in iraq, fighting over the exact number is stupid
purp we heard you already
I think I’ve earned my expert knife
Here’s a bit more solid, concise critique: http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110009108
bunbun, nope, the john hopkins uni study asked for the death reports prior to the invasion, far as i know the UN ILCS did not
And that’s just one out of many.
bun-bun then everyone should shutup…this is a pointless arguement you guys are having
we are not talking about the ILC study for the second time
but no one has died in Iraq - so says the government of Iran
the key to the validity of cluster sampling is to use enough cluster points. In their 2006 report, “Mortality after the 2003 invasion of Iraq: a cross-sectional sample survey,” the Johns Hopkins team says it used 47 cluster points for their sample of 1,849 interviews.
lets talk about me and how cool i am
JustinFra yes, I suppose you did. does not stop you from using the iraqi deaths to beat up on america over a war you do not like. as if anyone likes war. its so fucking pathetic on your part, really.
I wouldn’t survey a junior high school, no less an entire country, using only 47 cluster points.
fallout, i think u over-rate the Wall Street journal’s opinion page, anyway, i’ve already read it
we are talking ONLY about the johns hopkins numbers that are possibly wrong fro pre-war
JustinFra, sorry, that’s a genetic fallacy.
So you know all about the problem of too few cluster points?
but keep bringing up the ILC strawman
The article wasn’t written by “the wall street journal’s editorial page.”
bunbun, i am explaining why the John Hopkins university can argue that their figure the death toll prior to the invasion is more accurate than the UN
no one knows the exact number…a lot of people are dying thats what we know for sure…debating over exact numbers is pointless
Pointing to the source in which something was published does not dispense with what was published.
fallout, “too few” cluster points could make the study less accurate, have a higher margin of error. doesn;t mean it would produce a lower figure
Moreover, there’s nothing wrong with the Wall Street Journal’s editorial page in the first place.
how bout debating about real issues like how to stop the killings instead of debating the number of those killed
anyway, 2 million have died in Darfur over the last 4-5 years
dswtewart, sorry, but i tend to think the very fact something political is published in the wall street journal opinion page says a great deal about its value
so you should be like 8 times as outraged over that
Say it one more time, I don’t think everyone is hearing you (;
apparently they arent
wahahahaha but the requirement from the lead author that the publication ONLY occur just before a presidental election.. thats ok
Timur- the US is not in Darfur persay, so since you can not blame the deaths on the USA, its not important, what JustinFra would call an “Irrelevant fact”
What happens when you don’t use enough cluster points in a survey? You get crazy results when compared to a known quantity, or a survey with more cluster points. There was a perfect example of this two years ago.
JustinFra, you may say that. However, it merely shows you don’t care too much about logic.
hah
The UNDP’s survey, in April and May 2004, estimated between 18,000 and 29,000 Iraqi civilian deaths due to the war. This survey was conducted four months prior to another, earlier study by the Johns Hopkins team, which used 33 cluster points and estimated between 69,000 and 155,000 civilian deaths–four to five times as high as the UNDP survey, which used 66 times the cluster points.
The article isn’t political.” What happens when you don’t use enough cluster points in a survey? You get crazy results when compared to a known quantity, or a survey with more cluster points. There was a perfect example of this two years ago. The UNDP’s survey, in April and May 2004, estimated between 18,000 and 29,000 Iraqi civilian deaths due to the war. This survey was conducted four months prior to another, earlier study by the Johns Hopkins team, which used 33
aight im out, have fun debating over pointless shit
fallout, already told u, “too few” cluster points might mean there is a higher margin of error
DStewart we established that JustinFra does not use logic a long time ago.
We’re talking potentially a factor of 5
Appendix A of the Johns Hopkins survey, for example, cites several other studies of mortality in war zones, and uses the citations to validate the group’s use of cluster sampling. One study is by the International Rescue Committee in the Democratic Republic of Congo, which used 750 cluster points. Harvard’s School of Public Health, in a 1992 survey of Iraq, used 271 cluster points. Another study in Kosovo cites the use of 50 cluster poi
then why debate?
But, hey, it was published in the Wall Street Journal.
Swigert damn good question.
So your 655K deaths could be as low as 100K - and that’s assuming you agree with all other assumptions
When I pointed out these numbers to Dr. Roberts, he said that the appendices were written by a student and should be ignored. Which led me to wonder what other sections of the survey should be ignored. Dr. Roberts said that his team’s surveyors did not ask demographic questions. I was so surprised to hear this that I emailed him later in the day to ask a second time if his team asked demographic questions and compared the results to the 1997 Iraqi census. Dr. Roberts replied that he had not even looked at the Iraqi census.
fallout, bun bun brought up the UN ILCS earlier, it has a higher sample size but only asks a few questions about actual deaths, they were possibly more vague as they ask about deaths caused by the war as opposed to just deaths caused by violence
anyway, I think I have earned my expert knife
Swigert good deal.
i NEVER brought up the ILC
just got shank some dudes
for the THIRD time YOU keep making that strawman argument
one guy on Mashturr I ran up to full frontal - and got him before he could shoot
sorry bun bun, but the Iraqi ilcs is what is being compared to the John hopkins uni study
Over 1000 deaths a day missed by EVERYONE. Not just by statisticians. But by morgues, doctors, families, cemeteries, EVERYONE.
its so obvious 50 cent should run for president
no dated UN death rates.. NOT ILC but hey its only four times I have had to say that now
Mumia for president!!!
and UNICEF also not ILC
bunbun, for JustinFra, it’s about the number. He likes the number. He doesn’t really care about its truth.
yeah i know darth
bun bun, look, the ilcs is what is being used to compare with the JH report, i already answered yoru point about UN death rates for iraq prior to invasion
show me a paste where I mention the ILC as a source (not refuting your claims that i’m using the ILC) UNICEF and pre-war UN published death rates are NOT the ILC
dstewart, the john hopkins team say they did ask about demographics.. were there anyother points u made there that i missed
brb
bun bun, the UN were not in iraq to measure the death rates
JustinFra, odd. They say they didn’t.
neither was johns hopkins
dstewart sure they do
and this is the THIRD time we have done this circular argument
bun bun, the JH team calculate the death rate prior to the invasion by asking about it in their survey
i should ‘publish’ a number thats 1000000000 then Justin will start quoting me with FAR too few data points, and in opposition to other numbers and witout demographics and and and and
This latest Lancet Study released today claims that 555,000 Iraqis have died in the last two years since their last controversial study! That comes to around 770 violent Iraqi deaths each day on average!!! So, does this mean all of those headlines of 18 or 30 deaths were off by 700 or so?
bun bun… nonsense… they did ask about demographics and they surveyed thousands of people
Dr. Roberts said that his team’s surveyors did not ask demographic questions. I was so surprised to hear this that I emailed him later in the day to ask a second time if his team asked demographic questions and compared the results to the 1997 Iraqi census. Dr. Roberts replied that he had not even looked at the Iraqi census.
Nope, no demographics
and thats 3 times you have seen that
fallout, u honestly think the western press report all iraqi deaths?
waahahahahahahahha ok now its a press conspiracy And so, while the gender and the age of the deceased were recorded in the 2006 Johns Hopkins study, nobody, according to Dr. Roberts, recorded demographic information for the living survey respondents. This would be the first survey I have looked at in my 15 years of looking that did not ask demographic questions of its respondents. But don’t take my word for it–try using Google to find a survey that does not ask demographic questions.
The western press doesn’t report all deaths anywhere.
bun bun.. ua re posting someone’s complaint about the John Hopkins uni, not Dr Roberts words at all, dr Roberts never said they didn;t collect demographic information bun bun.. ua re posting someone’s complaint about the John Hopkins uni, not Dr Roberts words at all, dr Roberts never said they didn;t collect demographic information
This keeps going around in circles
So the press in unreliable - is that what you’re saying?
The Detroit press doesn’t report all deaths in Detroit.
Very long, boring circles
fallout.. think about it, u honestly think the western press has a correspondent in Fallujah telling us of every death?
I BLAME CLINTON
yeah i agree.. for someone who so wants to learn he is totally willing to ignore things that don’t fit his ‘view’
JustinFra, wow. Once you think about it like that, wow! It is so obvious!
hang on, i’ll find an interview with Dr Roberts where he says he did get demographic info
uh justinfra think about it…. do you honestly thing that every death was reported by JH or was it a sample just like a news sampling?
j,,,,
s/thing/think/
bun bun.. u just made the case for cluster sampling
No, you must be right. Death counts have been underreported by a factor of FORTY for two straight years.
so has someone come out with a report refuting the Johns Hopkins/MIT study of deaths in iraq between 2003 and 2006?
uh yeah but the ‘news’ reporting used 6600% more clusters
fallout, how did u figure that out?
some other research facility? or was bub-bun quoting rush limbaugh?
yeah JH is the only study out of 10+ thats right.. all the others were low by a factor of 5 or more
i cannot understand why anyone would argue about this
uh then why are you throwing fuel on the fire? you quoting al franken?
bun bun.. your source claiming that Dr Roberts did not collect demo data appears to be a liar What is striking is Mr. Moore’s statement that we did not collect any demographic data, and his implication that this makes the report suspect. This is curious because, not only did I tell him that we asked about the age and gender
do neocons still run this chan
http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2006/10/les_roberts_responds_to_steven.php
surely there is a difference between a “body count” of counted bodies and the number of deaths
550K deaths / 730 days = 750 deaths / day… 750 / 18 = 42. That’s how.
fallout.. eh? there are 18 reported deaths a day in iraq?
Sure. Yup. You know? It doesn’t really matter.
actualy it doesn’t make any difference those who support the war should support it even if there are over 1 million deaths
You have so much energy invested into believing the death toll at 655K is accurate that you can’t look at the study objectively anymore.
its 650 fallout so even higher
so why would there be an argument?
so where are we. the UN survey said different.. well the UN survey was about living standards, not deaths. the un had a higher iraqi death rate prior to the invasion.. well the Un didn;t actually know. Dr Roberts who lead the survey team did not ask demographic data.. well he did. what does that leave us with?
bun-bun: We subtracted 100K because those deaths occurred over two years ago.
between bush and clinton, they’ve killed a hell of a lot of iraqis
would your opinion on the war change if it turned out there are 1.5 million iraqi deaths? would you become a “cut and runner” if you knew that?
a real genocide actually
According to this report about 770 people have died every day. Every day. Where are they? They do not say. According to this report 14% of the 655,000 people died as a result of suicide bombers, that would be about 91,700 people. When and where were these people killed? They don’t have a clue. A bad month in Iraq is about 2600 casualties, but according to this socalled survey, 22,800 people have died every single month. A third, or more than 200,000 would have died in air raids. That is more than Hiroshima and Nagasaki. According to this report 57% were killed by gunfire, that would be about 373,000 people. Where are the bodies? When and where they buried? Did the BBC and AP, UPI, Reuters, AlJazeera all conspire to help hide the truth? Are the US and the Iraqi government together with all the doctors and mayors part of the plot ot hide these hundreds of thousands of dead people?
Do you even know my opinion?
america shoudlnt be there in the first place
fallout i happen to think 600,000 is too high, but the fact is I haev seen no actual statistical evidence to the contrary
i was asking i have no clue as to your opinion
All I’ve been talking about is a bad statistical methodolody that is being used to determine policy, which is disastrous.
dstewart, hwo do u know that 2600 is a bad day in iraq? fallout., when did u post evidence the methodology was bad?
well the use of “body counts” has been known tobe bad policy since the days of vietnam
mongo`: My view is that numbers of deaths are not as important as the basic ideologies that are in competition
JustinFra, a MONTH. Not a day.
mongo`: High numbers of deaths in the American Revolution, for example, should not have deterred our ancestors from seeing the conflict through
that is sort of what i was saying…… that those who are in favor of the war continuing with no changes, should surely not care how many iraqis are dead
dstewart, sorry, but how do u know that 2600 a month is a bad month?
and the same with those who are in favor of change
occupation powers dont have rights they have responsibilities
Boring
mongo`: I think we agree
its saturday night ffs
Fallllout has apoint, the “White Hats” are being called “Black Hats” and the “Black Hats” are upheld as superior. its quite amazing
someone get a juicy convo going pweeeese
hmm black hats vs white hats, US foreign policy competence in a nutshell
so i was surprised to hear that there are thjose who sdisagree with the Johns Hopkins report….. why should they care?
anyone looking for hard to find, rare, mp3s?
I might
anyway dstewart , where did u get your figure that 2600 dead iraqis was a bad month?
be
mongo`: Indeed, you have a point… looks like people are getting sucked in to a debate they shouldn’t be having
which one
arguing with dst is also a waste of time
Trife mp3#s hard 2 find on ta tinernet? lmao since when hehe
i created #tracks
But that’s the tactic - frame the argument based on those stats that back your ultimate goal up the best
JustinFra think about it, the one democratically elected leader in the free world is the problem, not people like Kim Jung Ill, Saddam, Fidel, thank GOD he is Dead Yassir, the nutjob in Iraq, and the leadership of Syria. you have to admit, thats a pretty fucked up world view.
just one
people there have good mp3 access
he is a “sophist” in the old greek sense of the term
