11.28.07
one would be forced to point out the vast differences in left and right authoritarianism Right WIngers win elections
slur
pilgrim` yeah when my nephew came t live with me he slurred a lot and talked like a half-way gangster and etc, he also has a speach impediment
I learned to read age 4 thanks to my mother, not schoool, and my Grandad who’s retirement job was a ranch, had me work for $1/day fixing fences wile reciting Latin to him. He was somwhat a taskmaster
I make him repeat a sentance until he gets it without slang or slurs
Parents are very important
I cut him slack on the speach impediment though
Kobushi I have awful dyslexia and am a hunt peck typist. I am sure it shows terribly so we each have areas where we do nto shine
Parents necessarily do not have to teach, but stress the importance of learning
But talking like he comes from the ghetto isn’t acceptable in my house
There is always the public library
read all abstracts even if you do nto understand it AAA I have read several libraries
Parents who believe education is important, do have better schools for their children
AAA I atended public school. I foudn it then, and for my child today: Useless
Serveral of our Supreme Court Justices, including the conservatives, attended public schools
but I am not rich liek Bill Gate’s Dad was
the schools here in NC seem decent
AAA and many of the privliged.. “our betters” did not
though thier science classes are sorely lacking
Most of the Nobel prize winners in the U.S. attended pubic schools, — probably all
KoBushi I find what my child brings home to beo 20% crap, 30% questioanble, and about 40% useless. -I have read his texts.
pilgrim` the thing that irritates me most is that in lower grades they teach math and science that is plain WRONG then they expect the kids to unlearn that later
the well education is important, especially, when they are going to steal lots of money from the gov
each year, I read his History, English Lit…this year economics and other texts
You make the choice to live in a school district that is above average
If a subject is too complicated t teach a 4th grader properly… then don’t teach it, wait till they can grasp the actual explinations
90% of my public high school went on to college
welcome to join the pureman club
AAA how strange. “above average”? You mena…some childern are given a better chance then others? How ELIETIST!! We should DO SOMETHING! lets pay teachers more money! money money money…the answe it money….
someone ELSE’s money
pilgrim — whatever — level the playing field
money money….All I ever herar
money is in the gov waiting for thou
after all, an effective salary of $160 is not enough add it up, hourly 160k
usd?
panini my money. to pay for a teacher who is flat ignorant but hey. they paid the union dues
yup unions are one of the biggest problems
Unions are not the problem
Unions?
once you take out every in service day, holiday, snow day, 3 month sumemr break, 3 week winter break, and an occasional day off, teachers almost work a a few weeks a year, if you call the crap they spew “work”
thw worker unions?
unions are the problem
s/thw/the
“meet the new (union) boss, same as the old boss
well, liberalism is the problem, and unions are a big part of liberalism
what do you mean?
union = organized crime
so, unions = gangs?
oh lord. Now unions are organized crime….what next ?
now? they always were
oh dear.
hehehe….the ramblings of the conservative element have no bounds…. no matter the problem, they will always find a way to blame it on “liberalism”….
unions are neccesarily associated with “liberalism”
correct
aren’t* rather
Unions have always been organized crime.
you were right the first time
pure nonsense.
liberalism has nothing to do with what “liberals” in the US are today
Teachers do not select text books nor do they write the curriculum for students
Turba, pure fact.
it’s a tottaly differnt word and meaning
at one time they were involved in organized crime. That’s now long gone.
this is why i call em Donkeys
“liberals” in the US aren’t even “liberal” it’s a confusion of terms and a pet peve of mine
School boards and adminstrators are at fault
Unions have long outlived their usefulness
gay folks are to blame…..
liberalism is the movement towards increased liberty for the populace
sexually active folks are to blame….
Unions are blamed wrongly
universities are to blame….
“Declared jihad on Liza Minnelli” — From David Letterman’s Top 10 Signs Barbra Streisand Is Nuts
You up the standards for teachers, then you must pay more
The minute unions got pension funds, the mob was there.
i agree.. liberty from personal accountability.. liberty from moral standards
Donkeys feel your pain, unless you are a taxpayer
quickest way to blow a liberal fuse is to declare moral absolutes oh baby does that send them over the edge
You get what you pay for
*shrug* just because most people missuse the word “liberal” doesnt mean you should too fordnut
i’m a liberal you’re a leftist theres a different *ce
What makes you think I’m a leftist?
moral standards are far from absolute.
You all want teaching to be a charity
oh i dunno, the past few years of watching your posts in here? Turba: is that so
fordnut then you haven’t been paying attention
fordnut, that’s true
of course…..
lol, “Donkeys”
if anything I’m a libertarian
turba fordnut is going to blow a fuse
for example, just say something like “terrorism is bad”… and liberals will go berserk!
I don’t really fit into any catagories
Turba: well then, i’m going to murder you because i think its okay in my book panini: indeed
if a certain group of folks thinks masturbation is morally wrong, does that make it wrong for everyone ?
the US right-wing almost scares me, they’re so adolescent
Turba: i’m going to have you killed, and there is nothing you can say about that, nor is it bad, because morals are not absolute
how about oral sex ? Wrong for everyone on the same basis ?
because thou are a left-wing member?
its okay according to me and my group of people
turba if they’re all in the same legal jurisdiction, then yes
gordonjcp yes, i can see how pointing out the fact that the Democrat party has nothing in common with the true meaning of “Liberal” does seem adolescent, to some.
so, you lose
it’s not OK according to some. Some consider it terribly morally incorrect. Do those folks’s moral standards become YOUR moral standards ?
it’s more the childish insults that are thrown I quite agree with pointing out the distinction between Democrats and Liberals
Turba: you better hope to God they do
moral standards and the law are two entirely different things.
afaik, liberalism ~= communism in US
just to muddy things up, we have the “Liberal Democrat” party over here
gordonjcp I have been trying to work on my insults, luckily, the DNC provides plenty of material
Turba: can you please cite a culture or people who thinks murder is correct?
turba not really… the law is how such moral standards are *enforced*
sometimes moral standards and the law come out on the same page, but many times they do NOT.
moral relativism is for simpletins
The good people look forward to the election
well, I think liberalism is seen as being the “Great Evil” the way that communism once was
The missuse of words in politics really is almost orwellian(sp?) sometimes hehe
*ons
is there a law against masturbation or oral sex ?
man, just went on another patriot ride, and have a new one next friday
turba is some places, yes in
they took advantage of democracy to destroy democracy
alkaline we were warned
if a party like the US Democrat party manage to produce so much comedy gold by themselves (and they do) then there isn’t really a need to result to calling them “Donkeys” etc
so, liberalism ~= communism in US
it just cheapens your argument
Scandals Of The Day… clean up the mess in D.C.
where “you” == “any random person attacking the Dems”
gordonjcp, well it’s been said that liberalism is merely “communism-lite”
gordonjcp well i sure as hell am not going to call em Liberal, and I can not in good faith, call them Democrats either, since the DNC does not support Democracy
it’s nothing at all like Communism
Bush’s seemingly inexplicable confidence that Republicans will maintain control of both houses of Congress
point…
and if you blamed them, they would say that you are a rasist
not in the United States….
gordonjcp attacking them dems over smoke n mirrors is one thing, attacking Democrats for the shit they do and say is wholly different
gordonjcp, they’re very similar… differing only in degree
I really can’t see how…
no wonder this crowd is so confused. Apparently they think the law and morals are equated to each other.
panini, i wont your body
Turba, wrong. There are places in the US where oral sex is illegal. technically
yes, but descending to school playground insults isn’t really that effective
there are most certainly moral absolutes
do tell me when and where the last arrest was made for engaging in oral sex….
gordonjcp the Donkey IS the DNC mascot, ya know
ahaa, I didn’t
he seems to have a fixation with oral sex
gordonjcp I think its because Elephant just does not carry the same sting
that makes more sense now…
it’s a perfect example of how screwed up your stance is.
panini, i really want your body
dead body?
Turba: screwed up? you can’t tell me who thinks murder is ok !
widespread panic in the Republican establishment about the coming elections
and NO, there are not absolutes.
gordonjcp oh, well, yes, the Ass is the Symbol of the DNC, which is where I got the Term Donkey. like I say, I do not have to make this shit up
panini has a fantastic body but I don’t share lol
there most certainly ARE
gordonjcp, I’ll make it simple for you… liberalism,socialism,communism are all about state ownership/control of economic resources
and your life depends on them
bbl
murder is against our laws. However, killing someone in self-defense goes unpunished. Absolute ?
Bush is almost inexplicably upbeat
Turba: what if i say murder is ok? what if the majority says its ok?
not as I understand liberalism, I’d like to see a solid definition that says that
and votes it into law? is that moral?
that’s where the law comes into play….NOT morals.
you cited the law not me pal
gordonjcp, here you go… opposes individual liberty (preferring instead to accrue power to the state), who rejects logic and rationality (relying instead on _emotion_ and intuition), and denies any system of absolute morality (subscribing instead to _moral relativism_)
let me also remind you what the definition of murder is
if murder were not illegal, then morals would take over (and I assure you that not all would share the stance that murder is immoral)
it is killing someone with malice aforethought
from?
Turba: thank you for proving my point “then morals would take over”
the difference is that the laws apply to ALL equally. The law IS absolute. Morals are NOT.
lol you foolish foolish person
“murder” is defined BY law
then morals would take ove explain that please expound
and not all would share the stance that murder is immoral. Hence, morals are NOT absolute.
oh i see so if i killed your family and i thought it was ok what right do you have to tell me otherwise
without a doubt, MOST would consider murder immoral, but surely not all.
Morals are not absolute — killing on the battlefield is acceptable
because the LAW interferes, dufus.
yeah, you call those people psychopaths lol @ justifying murder
fordnut, or liberals
nice try guys
morals are your PERSONAL guideline, which in some cases is reinforced by law. However, not ALL morals are covered under law.
nope
Mercy killing is not to be considered murder
theyre not my personal guidelines
where did you get that definition of “liberal” from? ‘cos, it doesn’t match any definition I’ve ever heard
yes, they are. You are hopelessly confused (as are most conservatives….
moral is only a tool of evil politicians
lol you’re a simpleton sorry
a highly educated simpleton, at that…..
a laughably foolish one
gordonjcp, that’s because you saw the definition of *classical* liberalism. What I gave is the definition of *modern american* liberalism
oh wait. I’m a product of some “liberal university”….hehehe
riiiiiiiight
which has nothing to do with classical liberalism
philosophy 101 goes on to show moral relativism is a crock
panini that sound like the current administration
so you’re just randomly redefining words to suit your own political agenda?
ask any attorney if morals equates to the law….
that isnt what i’m saying buddy you and i agree there this has nothing to do with the law
no, I’m accurately characterizing modern liberalism
Law is a public policy statement
Turba, your blanket trolling statements about conservatives aren’t welcome, not ALL conservatives are “hopelessly confused”.
which is where you liberal bedwetters freak out
if moral was useful, we shouldn’t make laws
because you think people are trying to legislate morality on you
I await one which is not.
pls, as if there arn’t blanket statements about liberals here every day
so where did that definition come from?
by the way Turba, if I were you, I’d ask your “liberal university” for a refund you didn’t get your money’s worth
Law allows for divorce which is abhorent to morality
from me, obviously
Turba, don’t say you weren’t warned.
Turba so, you subscribe to false dichotomies like “left or right” or “liberal or conservative” ?
the same “liberal university” which I attended make a patent attorney out of my son, and a corporate V-P out of my daughter. Damned failures….
KoBushi — They are not false but inconsistent
Liberal university? sounds like a good place to hide dirty money from the other countries
Turba: you cna make a patent attorney out of an ape, and V-Ps are a dime a dozen
AAAman a false dichotomy is presenting 2 choices as the only options/possibilities, when in fact there are more
eeeek….and I forgot that it also made a physician out of my wife. I’m the dumb one in the family. I stopped at a MBA,,,,
education != success Turba: I’d say you stopped far short of an MBA
fordnut but it helps
success != life
again, refund
authoritarian vs libertarian is a more important distinction than “left” v. “right”, because the latter mainly correlate to which issues a person thinks it’s important for society/government to be authoritarian/meddlesome about, and which it’s important for them not to be.
ask for a refund immediately
want to compare financial portfolios ?
i would love to as if that has anything to do with education level
not a problem…..
plusplusc not really
net assets here make me a millionaire…….(as if that’s difficult these days…
i bet i made it there before you did bub lol
plusplusc tons of people from all over the political spectrum belive in government authority and force/power, bplusplusc tons of people from all over the political spectrum belive in government authority and force/power, /b bbplusplusc tons of people from all over the political spectrum belive in government authority and force/power, /b/b
As far as particular issues…yes it makes a difference whether you’re passionate about government protecting the environment through regs, vs. preventing abortions through laws and regs.
Turba, what city do you live in?
gordonjcp, lol, you are seriously confused
plusplusc the terms you mentioned don’t differentiate those things
bye bye repubs
ever heard of a small company called Pepsi?
you cannot be left AND libertarian
plusplusc environment regulations ARE authoritarian, not libertarian
you’re a joke Turba
ask me if I care what you think.
panini true
there is a funny theory long time ago, the pure-blood bastards got more education
unusual that someone on IRC actually used “you’re” properly
oh really? lol is that why you just rambled off a bunch of hokum about schools you and your children went to?
I live in Wisconsin. Close enough for your purposes.
Turba, what city do you live in?
lol
yes, I recognize that. My own basic orientation is very libertarian, but I make an exception where it comes to environmental issues. Because that’s one place I think it’s important for society to intervene to take care of.
you’re so clever we’re all so *terribly* impressed
panini I think gordon is a troll
thanks
I get so tired of people saying, “Your stupid” and “Your dumb” and “their all stupid”
and a microcephalic one at that
why do you think I’m a troll?
Turba, I find that when people talk about their wealth, they generally don’t have it.
what does it mean “you tube”?
My point is not to raise environmental debates, however but rather to illustrate that while most people have a predominate orientation (authoritarian vs libertarian)…few are purely one way or another, and it’s interesting to note which issues constitute their relative impurities.
gordon because only a troll thinks that you can be left and libertarian
rubbish
gordonjcp, thanks but it doesn’t take much cleverness to understand the leftism is far from libertarianism
again, I don’t care what you think either…..
you clearly understand neither…
i understand both, very well
thinking is not all that popular among the left
that’s why I said you are seriously confused
gordon I have a political science degree and I know from which I speak
Turba, I didn’t give my thoughts, I gave what a finding.
what is your qualification for claiming to understand both when you understand neither
err, I gave a finding
and if you say rubbish to me again when I am right you will join my ignore list which is about a mile and a half long
good for you. I wasn’t impugning your credentials
as a hint as to where my asset value lies, each half of this year’s property tax exceeded $70K.
I’ve sat here watching panini spout gibberish and half-truths that he refuses to back up
Turba, talk, nothing more.
Traditional socialist-leftism is *not* libertarian, except perhaps with regard to non-economic personal liberties. But even there, those with an authoritarian streak extend that over personal liberties as well
gordon well that gives you no qualification to understand the left or libertarian
I write the checks. I know where it goes….
gordon so you haven’t answered my question
amazingly, we agree on something
Turba, again, talk, nothing more.
plusplusc, *highfive*
that’s a bit of a jump to make
and again, I don’t care if you believe it or not. it’s irrelevant in the scheme of things.
gordon no, it’s not. I asked you what is your qualification for understanding that you can be left and libertarian at the same time, you have yet to explain to me your qualification for doing so hence you have not answered my question now you can answer my question or join a host of other microcephalic trolls on my ignore list, your choice
but also recognize that predominately, the “Christian right” is *not* libertarian, but authoritarian in their goals to create a more moral society. So authoritarianism is not unique to economic-leftist causes. that’s just one example.
perhaps, but that was not what was being debated
plusplus that’s not relevant to the topic at hand
er, of why left v. right breaks down as a means of identifying people’s most important underlying basic philosophies
but good try to stand in for the troll
the topic was gordonjcp’s false understanding of libertarianism and liberalism
oh right, I need a qualification to explain my political views?
true, I did arrive in mid-stream in this thread.
gordon when your political views are wrong yes you can not be left and libertarian at the same time they are mutually exclusive
you’re quite welcome to ignore me. I know that’s the last refuge of those who cannot sustain an argument
gordon I sustain arguments quite well, it is you who will not answer my question gordon you are incapable of having an intelligent discussion
one would be forced to point out the vast differences in left and right authoritarianism, Right WIngers win elections, and implement policy, left wingers have to go to Judges to get their unpopular policies FORCED upon the people. so, in this example, who is really the Authoritarian?
no, that’s not true at all. Depends on which “left” issues you refer to. For example, many people nominally on the political “left” are ardent civil libertarians about privacy, free expression, and so on, in a very libertarian mode.
more good news…. COLUMBUS, Ohio - Two polls released Tuesday show GOP Sen. Mike DeWine (news, bio, voting record) trailing his Democratic rival in a Senate race once considered among the closest in the country.
plusplus yes it is true and if you knew anything about libertarianism you would know it is true clearly you are also ignorant on the subject
well, I believe that the government has a useful, but intentionally restricted place in the running of a successful country
but since I like you plusplus you don’t get ignored
U.S. Rep. Sherrod Brown (news, bio, voting record) was favored by 53 percent of likely Ohio voters surveyed by The Quinnipiac University Poll, compared to 41 percent who favored DeWine.
hahah turby here proved my point about setting liberals off
make as few laws as possible and stick to the important stuff like keeping the roads and water systems working
gordon I see
MORALS ARE ABSOLUTE
Democrats lead the media polls in 02, and 04 as well. and we know how that turned out.
well that is a right not a left view
nothing I love more than seeing the GOP drinking brackish water.
I wouldn’t say it was a particularly right-wing view
gordon you wouldn’t say that, but it is
buddy you come back in here on nov. 3
Democrats are really hoping that the third time is the charm
rather you wish to say it as such or not
Few people are consistent libertarians. The overwhelming majority of folks claiming to be such turn out to have pet causes where there’s qualifications, quid pro quos, provisos, etc….all in the name of the necessary self-preservation of a libertarian society.
and we’ll talk
I think that important public services such as transport, schools and hospitals should be state-run
actually, the Dems did NOT lead the media polls in EITHER race period….
which is basically left-wing
Turba Historical revisionism
gordon no, left wing wants to run everything by the government right wing wants less government it’s basic poli sci 101
I am a poll follower. There was no clear edge of any sort for the Dems in either ‘02 or ‘04.
can’t agree with you there
gordon you don’t have to agree with me, I know I’m right anyway
Polls favor donkeys, its news, Poll favors GOP, its shitcanned, Ala the VNS. you know, the exit polling showing a republican sweep in 02 the Media Dropped like a hot tater? remember?
just as much as I know I’m right too. We can agree to disagree
I agree that what matters is how people actually turn out and vote three weeks from today, not opinion poll snapshots. But the tea leaves aren’t meaningless either - you’ve got to admit the wind is blowing in the GOP’s face at the moment.
or does your selective memory not remember.
FACT. there are NO polls favoring the GOP right now, so there is nothing to “shit can”.
I’d sum it up as “I want the government to do what I pay it to - no more and no less”
gordon find that’s a rightwing view not a left you’re wrong what makes you think you are right that is what I asked in the first place, what qualifies your understanding but you refuse to give me an answer
++C yes the wind is blosing in the GOP faces, no one is arguin that, what we are pointing out tho is the Democrats election chances hinges on Republican perfidy, not genuine, actual sound policy people can vote for.
so now here we go, welcome to ignore land be ignorant and prsoper
Rebec — Right Wing says one thing and does the other
Turba nice dodge, change subjects a lot don;t you
heigh-ho, /ignore is for n00bs
AAAman I can’t help it if you are ignorant of definitions of things, would you like to join gordon on my ignore list?
oh noes, Rebec has me on /ignore
you’d better take a good look at some “conservative/right” people then. Pat Buchanan, for example. “Conservatives” come in many different flavors, and IMHO the current incarnation has forfeited the libertarian franchise, at least the political movement calling itself “conservative”. Not that the democrats in the past didn’t thoroughly deserve to lose that distinction.
Turba lies and distortions are no way to go through life son, here is a poll favoring the GOP over the donks 60 to 30%, did it make the news? I have not seen it.
Rebec == definitions are useless unless you follow them
plusplus ummm thank you but I am very well educated on the matter maybe the rest of you should take some classes on the subject and then maybe an intelligent discussion can ensue and don’t patronize me again it’s rude hi carious
hi rebec
I was just leaving this is a bunch of idiots here
I’ve changed no subject. What are you blathering on about ?
later then
yeah, and randomly /ignore-ing people because you don’t agree with them *isn’t rude at all*
darth get me later when we can have an intelligent discussion carious yeah
++C has a point, the GOP is a much larger, more tolerant political party than the DNC ever was, just ask Joe Lieberman
where’s that supposed poll ?
You may be very book-educated about the theories of libertarianism, conservatism, etc. but what matters far more is what people actually *do*, what mix of beliefs in practice they have, not ivory-tower theory. There are very few pure libertarians.
Turba more lies son? gee, why can’t you lefties answer basic, simple questions. I know. the answers are painful.
after examination of the poll, perhaps we will know why it didn’t make any news…..
Turba yes, i wonder.
I await an URL.
You go right on thinking that.
I am sorry but I do not have a URL, you see, it never made the news, so searching for it is pointless.
why waste your breath
so it does not exist ? LOL
DarthBurg — Not even talk radio?
news doesn’t make a thing reality
++C facts hurt don;t they, the GOP is way more tolerant of people like chaffee and snowe than the DNC ever will be, just ask Liberman, or Zell, or Ed Koch ++C you can not deny this.
you see, your stance is pointless, since even Katherine Harris’ own poll, in which she was seen instructing children how to vote for her, made the news.
Joe got the ax. Chaffee never, the GOP is more tolerant
Wonder why that showed up in the liberal media??–gives one pause to wonder
Turba Katherine Harris is one of the GOPs the Media loves to hate, like Joe Lieberman.
Bob Casey is being cheered on by dems, despite defying orthodoxy on the abortion issue.
because Harris’ poll was a pure joke. Not even close to scientific methodology.
++C, well, and the DNC is a lot more tolerant of page abusers than the GOP and of common crooks
I had no idea the DNC used statistics at all
so I guess what is it that is important to you? clearly, rule of law ain;t one of them
Dale Kildee hints that more page scandals may be forthcoming. Kildee is a Democrat. Ya think he’s going to reveal that if his own party members are involved ?
doesn’t matter you could bust a donkey with his dick IN a page, and its not news
Chaffee didn’t get the axe precisely because: 1) the GOP really, really wants to keep that seat to keep their majority; 2) the other GOP candidate in the primary, the hard-core rightie, didn’t have a snowball’s chance in the general election; 3) Chaffee is a thorn in the GOP’s side often, but votes with them often enough to be useful.
exactly.
++C just another example of how the RNC is politically tolerant and the DNC is not, thank you.
Turba, Kildee may also be just talking shit, as usual.
where as the DNC tolerates crooks.
the GOP seems very tolerate of page abusers.
Turba, If Kildee has something, where is it?
I do not blame the Democrats for lack of such tolerance.
yes, so much so he resigned. meanwhile, william jefferson has been tossed under the Bus? oh yeah, thats rght, he is a democrat, so he can break the law.
obviously he is not at liberty to reveal substance of ongoing investigation.
Harold Ford is hardly a liberal, yet the dems are supporting him in Tennessee.
you guys can not stand on hypocracy
Turba, and oviously he hasn’t got anything. err, obviously
obviously ? Bwahahaha
++C, I will take your word for that. I am sure Joe Lieberman will give a ringing endorsement for Democrat Tolerance.
when republicans and democrats stop bitching back and forth the country might actually be a place i’m willing to live in
Turba, yes, obviously, as if he had something, it would be out there.
take it for what it is worth. WASHINGTON (AP) — Michigan U.S. Rep. Dale Kildee says allegations of improper conduct toward teenage pages that are unrelated to ex-Rep. Mark Foley are under discussion by House overseers of the program. The Flint congressman is the only Democrat on the House Page Board, would not say Monday whether the allegations involved Republicans or Democrats, lawmakers or staff members. He said nothing has been proven.
Turba, I am, it’s worth nothing and that’s what I take it for. Ahh, nothing has been proven, therefore, he hasn’t got anything.
You’re incapable of crawling outside your partisan talking point spin world long enough to objectively see things. I see tons of warts on the democrats, for example. I could even be a republican myself if, as Charles Barkely said when explaining why he was no longer one “I used to be a republican until they lost their mind”
the democrats only get worked up about policing congress when they are out of power, its blindingly transparent.
the Democrats didn’t really get any chance to correct Foley’s aberrations.
as do the Repubs
The chairman of the board is Rep. John Shimkus, R-Ill., who acknowledged freezing out Kildee and Rep. Shelley Moore Capito, R-W.Va., when he learned of Foley’s conduct in the fall of 2005. Capito also has expressed concern that she was not informed, and her Democratic opponent has accused her of failing teenagers in Congress’ care.
And I can agree that the dems should have voted not merely to strip Cong. Jefferson of committee assignments, but to have him expelled.
Charles says someone else lost their mind???–that’s funny
That is not to their credit.
++C, I am more than willing to give the benefit of the doubt, but you can not, so whats the point?
any idea why Kildee was “kept in the dark” on this one ?
++C, I mean, really, why should I admit to anything when you lefties can not even admit your party tossed Joe Lieberman to the wolves. its really pointless. and when the DNC does NOT make the massive election gains you people are praying for, what then? more of the same.
I think both majors are corrupt dispicable and disgusting, I also think the system is so screwed up that it would be futile to try and repair it with a 3rd party
how many elections do you people have to lose before you get a clue?
DarthBurg — You mean the voters of Conn
and what if they DO make those gains ?
pilgram-I so agree
Turba, no.
Turba the GOP will retool, just like after nixon, and be back in the whitehouse 4 years later. Turba what will the DNC do? nothing.
DarthBurg, that’s presuming they lose.
anyone ever read Robert Heinlein’s short story “If this goes On..”? Today reminds me of it so much…the only diff beign that that was a Theocratic totalitarianism
that would be one of the possible benfits of a wholesale bloodbath every so often in congress. The next two to four years after such a bloodbath is when meaningful reforms can best get done, before the power structure begins to re-ossify into corrupt oligarchy. But I agree it’s difficult to be too optimistic.
TheTailor everyone knows if the GOP loses they will regroup, and get a clue, and come out fighting. this is not something we have to worry about the DNC doing, since they are on the same message now they have been using for the last two election cycles
+c universal and irreversable term limits
this election cycle is going to give us the same result as the previous two. 50/50
Not following through on that seeming promise in the 94 GOP revolution is something the GOP really, really should regret right now…
here (Oregon) we voted term limits 10 years ago. Politicos sued. Got a judge to overturn the clear will of the people plus yep it is the one issue, they all refuse to ALLOW to be an issue
the GOP’s problem is they act way to much like donkeys, and the people (Like Me) who voted for em, are pissed off.
US Senate should be two terms, congress should be six terms, max, with a combined limit of twenty years.
the DNC is just pissed
this is what pandering to the Religious Right earned the GOP…. Cliff Kincaid of Accuracy in Media, a conservative watchdog, thundered on the group’s Web site yesterday that “House leaders permitted homosexuals to infiltrate and manipulate the party apparatus while they publicly postured as friends of family values and traditional marriage. The facade is now in ruins.”
this year there is a voter initative on our ballot to again impose a term limit
Turba, “thundered” huh 
did you happen to catch David Kuo on 60 Minutes Sunday ?
Turba, I’m on the Accuracy in Media website, I can’t find the thundering.
is this foley thing really huge?
Oregon is fortunate that as inherently corruptable as politics is, Oregon is *relatively* one of the cleaner states with a relatively better-informed, active citizenry. You don’t realize how bad it is in some other corrupt yahoo-dominated places, whether it’s ossified democratic city machines or corrupt-owned by industry lobbies good old boy southern rural politicos.
or isn’t it over yet
Specifically, Kuo says people in the White House political affairs office referred to Pat Robertson as “insane,” Jerry Falwell as “ridiculous,” and that James Dobson “had to be controlled.” And President Bush, he writes, talked about his compassion agenda, but never really fought for it. such loyalty to the folks for whose votes the GOP pandered…..
Talking about it is fighting for it.
I agree with all of those statements
Pat Robertson as “insane,” Jerry Falwell as “ridiculous,”
yeah, I do too, and apparently the GOP does as well (But all you will see is the GOP kissing these folks’s asses to get their followers’ votes)
Turba, that’s your second errof, I voted for Badnarik
