12.01.07
ok youve totally missed the point Since legality didnt spur the Europeans to action in their very own backyard
lol.. yea.. Daschle and Kerry.. neocons
he didn’t have the political backing to invade Iraq at the time.
what is the left, other than resistance towards inherent rights?
after 9/11, it was another story.
Eyelash transplant surgery wants to become the new must-have procedure for women — and the occasional man — convinced that beauty is not so much in the eye of the beholder as in front of the eye itself.
glock.. sure.. u wanted to solve a problem that Iraq did not actually represent
except it did.,
timur.. i asm sure u are right there
that’s what people don’t realize that. ops, scuse the grammatical flub.
but at least it is a constitutional use of power by the government. I may not agree with it myself, but at least its a valid use of power.
Personally the neocon argument to invade Iraq, though partially flawed due to the WMD non-threat, was still fairly persuasive.
bah, it aint “neo con” in anyway/shape or form
glock.. umm.. exactly what kibnd of threat did iraq represent?
Justinfra… none yet. Best time
glock… exactly.. it would have taken the complete removal of sanctions and many years till iraq could ever potentially be a threat again
see : http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/06/04/nyt.friedman/
Justinfra… even if true, I disagree, but even if true, so what?
no, it was already a threat, and the region as a whole was and is a threat.
Justinfra… why would we lift sanctions on a nation that wasn’t cooperating with the ceasefire agreement? Just because we’re bored?
glock.. well the so what is that the invasion has done a great deal of harm and very little good
lest we forget, Iraq was shooting at our planes on at least a weekly basis
timur.. ty for the article and i think i agree with most of it.. the WMD was picked as the only possible legal reason for invading iraq
exactly. Among other things.. now, we also let down the Kurds horribly in the 90s
Lupine|: the transfer tax on class iii weapons is also under their power right? but i don’t have to vote for the SOBs who back it.
it’s got nothing to do with ‘legality’.
glock.. we weren;t about to lift the sanctions
Like I said, you see more harm than good, I don’t.
geopolitics aren’t conducted on the basis of legality. they’re conducted on the basis of considered national interest.
timur.. no.. but if the US wanted an ally.. ie..me.. the UK.. it needed a legal basis for invasion..ie wmd
and besides, we needed to test out our latest military toys
I find that unconstitutional.. and I am not sure of any court precedent establishing it is constitutional.
Justinfra… nonsense.
glock.. u don;t need allies?
Lol.. a 15 year old kid is totally owning this cop in terms of driving ability. http://www.glumbert.com/media/chase
Justinfra… no we didn’t need wmds at all for it be legal
James Baker was on NPR a few weeks ago talking about national interests; he talked about how Reagan had plans drawn up for how we’d invade nations to get oil if it came to it.
glock.. u needded a breach of the UN resolution
that’s the calculation that was made, but it’s not certain it was the only possible course, as opposed to just saying ‘Iraq’s been shooting at our planes, massacring Kurds and Shi’a, and has been buying long-range missiles, not to mention waylaying the inspectors for years, and enough is enough’.
back in the 80s; rtc. er etc.
which would’ve been fine for me.
why is DrkRose banned ??
“the officer reacts instantly”.. no, he freaked out, overcompensated, and lost control
and would’ve removed the idiocy surrounding the idea that WMDs was the ‘only’ reason.
We’d been conducting military operations against Iraq on and off since 1991 without UN approval under US law that authorized the president, both Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, to enforce the ceasefire agreement.
timur.. the fact that iraq massacred kurds 15 years agao when Saddam was our ally is not a legal basis for invasion
911 what are you going to do about it ????
error 21…lol
but don’t confuse public statements with actual reasons, nor tactics with strategy.
The UN acknowledged that they breached the agreement NUMEROUS times
I mean, if you wanna understand what’s actually going on.
Including right before the war in UNSCR 1441
why are they not properly searchin the site and now tryin to build to hide the evidence ???
JustinFra…voilating an Accord is…
They disagreed on the solution, not the violation.
glock.. un 1441 was a statement that Iraq was in material breach of the UN resolution with regard to WMD and inspections.. that was the legal basis for the war.. and it debatable
They all agreed Iraq was in violation of the ceasefire terms, but they only authorized “serious consequences” The US didn’t need that under US law, which already had authorization, then further authorization.
true 1441 was the official reason for the iraq invasion.
The Persian Gulf War was still ongoing when we invaded in 2003
glock.. we are not talking about US law.. we are talking about international law.. which the US needed to give a basis for its allies.. ie the UK, to join in
and it’s a legalism, and really not that important, vs the actual reasons.
Anyone serving in 1990’s was a veteran of the gulf war era. (me being one of them)
or rather the sum total of them, amply described in that Friedman piece, which is why I so often use it
Glock2l: heh, technically if we invaded North Korea tomorrow we could say the Korean War was still ongoing.
not 90’s but 2001-02
timur.. legally the US can do anything it wants and fuck anybody else
Libertine… it is
Glock2l: yep.
pretty much any nation can, tht’ that’s the point.
Glock2l: hence why i said that.
Sudan’s still committing genocide
the korean war technically never ended
Just released this afternoon .. MUST HAVE Firefox update .. http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/ uninstall all Firefox extensions that you have currently installed download and install Firefox 2.0 live happy with new features and security improvements
allan5oh: yep.
Lib:good point, shows the irrelevance of mere legality in geopolitics.
timur.. however.. if the US ever wants an ally.. abd after this fuck up in iraq thats not going to be easy.. then it is going to haev pay more attention to international law
allan5oh… neither did the Persian Gulf Conflict (at least in US law)
1st) uninstall firefox; 2nd) install Opera
firefox v2.0 is released just upgrade ??
3J .. opera sux
or just not use firefox heh
my cousin who flew F/A 18’s were fired upon multiple times
can you keep your old one ?
bbl… gotta get homework done
KL .. read the instructions
FF is for sheeple
will it import the bookmarks ?
CometBaby, then why does firefox keep trying to copy it?
I posted 4 lines
get opera.
did you install it ? naw i like firefox no opera
hehe
ok i will install it
only to the extent ‘international law’ is an accurate reflection of the wishes of its allies, which it may or may not be.
IE rulez
its really different .. I just finished installing
RAWR!!! heheheh
and yes .. all my bookmarks are there
again, it’s about interests, whether individual or collective, not about legalities, which are generally merely a reflection of those interests, but only in part.
timur… the US’s allies cannpt ignore international law the same way that the US can
IamKing left me a message ..
what magazine came out and claimed the repubs will hold onto congress based on them out-spending the democrats?
uninstalling Firefox 1.5 will not remove the bookmarks that were used by it
One big difference I have noticed out of the can .. the search engine dropped all the options. its strictly google now
you can add others
yes they can, and they do. All the time. But those selfsame nations aren’t superpowers, and thus with lesser involvement generally worldwide, also have less risk of running afoul of those laws, their merit (or lack) aside.
unlike Opera, which has several by default and easy to add any more
after the fact, of course
IamKing .. how?
it’s easy to add new search engines in Firefox
all I saw was the whole toolbar thing for each one
timur… i disagree, I don’t think the UK ignores internation law the way the US can and does
I don’t want sixteen toolbars
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6708190071483512003&q=truth+911
and don’t confuse law with morality either, since France had a hand in the Rwandan genocide, and since Europe generally failed to act in the case of the Yugoslav massacres.
there’s pull-down menu for whichever icon indicates which current search engine you have selected
there wasn’t a legal requirement to do so, and therefore perfectly legal. Stupid, immoral, yes, but not illegal. uthere wasn’t a legal requirement to do so, and therefore perfectly legal. Stupid, immoral, yes, but not illegal./u
‘Manage Search Engines…’ is an option at the bottom of the pull-down menu
oh its on the other side now I see it used to be on the right .. now its on the left
have fun all and unban DrkRose …. back to watchin charlie crist vs jim davis debate :/
timur.. thats a fair point.. but i don’t think its fair to blame france for Hutus macheting tutsis to death and the EU was to weak militarily to act in Yugoslavia
left? my search box is on the right
mmmm VMware rocks.
the search box is on the right
you’ll never have spyware or virus’s on your own pc
but the drop down arrow moved to the left side of the search window
make sure you firewall off the virtual machine from yours..heh
lol Firefix fun??
Xnomar: well you could; they’d just be locked in a virtual machine of your chosing
yep
the down arrow immediately to the right of the Google icon
heh
no, the EU could easily have acted in Yugoslavia. But it didn’t have the will, neither collectively nor even the larger component states (Germany, France, UK, etc.), and thus this lack of action about a major issue in their midst shows their utter lack of relevance in the field of policing.
yeah
that will drop down a menu to select ‘Manage Search Engines’
Xnomar: I have several VM’s on my VMware desktop at work; one of them is my honey pot where i do local testing.
used to be on the other side of the search window
oh
yeah I found it
don’t remember myself
LOLOL
that is how i setup customers that cant’ stay off the damn porn sites. it’s great cause when the wife checks the favorites it’s clean
that’s recently begun to change, but it’s quite clear the US is, and for the near term at least, has to be the leader in that regard.
Libertine very nice
well I couldn’t find it .. because it changed
timur.. i disagree.. the EU military is only designed to act as part of NATO. without the US is doesn;t have the air power or even basic ability to transport troops that it would have needed to take on a fairly dangerous foe in Serbia
Xnomar: well VMware is great at reducing the overall cost of extra servers; we have such powerful boxes these days; we really under-use them by not virtualizing them.
what the fuck is this new horseshit firefox 2… open a new tab, type in an address, and the address goes into the FIRST tab what the fuck is the point of having tabs if I CANT FUCKING USE THEM!?
timur.. having said that.. there was not an overwhelming demand in the EU for military action in Yugoslavia.. u are correct there
good point and there are lots of apps that don’t like to play well with others. great to enclose them
I don’t have that problem…methinks it’s PEBCAK 
ESPN’s telecast of the New York Giants’ 36-22 victory over the Dallas Cowboys on Monday night was viewed by the largest audience in cable history. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2637570
Xnomar: yep.. also good for channelizing dev/qa/staging environments on a single server.
IamKing did they do away with No Script?
wtf, forward and back dont work either!?
who?
Firefox
Xnomar: you can’t more ’same’ then the ’same’ hardware.
it was one of the extensions No Script
er than.
sell firefox its shit
i keep clean virtual machines for all kinds of OS’s from workstations to servers for setting up test enviroments
allan .. I love it
Xnomar: yep
they just upgraded it today
never heard of it…you can disable JavaScript and Java in Firefox regardless
Xnomar: VMware is a blessing.
the European component of NATO could have acted, it had the logistical capacity to do so. What it did lack was will, and the result is 100s of 1000s of dead Yugoslavs, and even more streaming across the borders of Western Europe, causing problems in those countries.
yep
yes it is..especially now that it’s free
ok something is SERIOUSLY wrong here
Tools menu | Options… | Content
so, the ability existed, but the will, again, did not.
but this gave you the options of picking and choosing sites
5 24/10/2006
CB… thats what im talking about, i cant use any tabs(they come up but i cant do anything with them) and forward and back do NOT work they’re greyed out im back in the stone age
I like firefox a lot. if you need a new tab use crt t, its easy
oh, that’s nifty…some extensions may not be updated to be compatible with 2.0 yet…some are
i needed a win2k3 R2 ent. virtual machine for testing. took me three downloads to finally get a vlk version and my key works with it..heh
timur.. i disagree….. although I think u are partially right about ambivalance to military action, the Eu did not have the military logisitcs to take action against serbia without taking serious losses.. remember.. NATO with the US took NO losses
cant close tabs…
the activation and trial would only last 60-120 days
IamKing yeah I really liked it .. everything is disallowed .. and you can allow specific sites you want to.
how in the fuck do you manage to install software at all?
it did; the EU countries, esp Britain, France, and Germany have remarkable air forces, including large-scale transport, tanks, etc.
I can close tabs just fine and the FLST extension works just fine with 2.0 too
i think firefox 2.0 requires some major drill pressing
it chose not to use them, and/or lacked the will to act in concert.
that’s “Focus Last Selected Tab”
before Monday’s game, the most viewed cable program was a debate on NAFTA (between Al Gore and Ross Perot) haha
remember the Yugoslav crisis lasted for years.
methinks you fucking your install somehow
hrm.. Heroes is getting big ratings..
I have no problems whatsoever
sweet..
timur… the EU uses US military transports for those tanks.. the EU has nothing like the air power of the US.. nothing like the AWACs systems of the US.. and NO stealth bombers/fighters
installing software isn’t hard dude
indeed…so how in the hell did YOU fuck yours up?
it wasn’t as if the EU didn’t have time to act. They simply were incapable politically/orginazationally, which shows the emptiness of putting legality at the forefront of geopolitical considerations.
i like heroes. good so far
allan5oh I’m not having any problem cycling through my tabs
because mine installed just fine
who said *I* fucked it up?
my tabs work great
Heroes=’season pass’
it would have to be you because I have no problems with it like the ones you mentioned so far
wow.. looks almost like CGI.. but real http://www.glumbert.com/media/rocket
reinstalled it, now it works what a pile of shit
although this begs the question…which OS are you running Firefox on?
xp
same here
timur… the EU is not one country.. it is a very loose conglomeration of 25 nations with very different histories and policies.. yes u are right.. it should haev acted.. but it would have taken large casualties
aha .. I found No Script .. https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/722/
assuming you’re right, which I’m not sure you are, they could have asked the US much earlier for aid, but as far as I know they didn’t.
had no problems…you or some background app must have fucked up the install originally
they did allow the situation to go from dangerous, to bad, to worse, to horrorshow. but either way, incapable of acting, all perfectly legal, however.
hrm.. firefox installed fine.. on linux…
now THAT is impressive
timur.. Tony Blair did ask Clinton for aid.. clinton said congress wouldn’t let him have it.. it was several years and the slaughter in Bosnia later before Clinton was allowed to act
heheheh
right, that’s just my point. That’s why accusing the US of *not* being subject to the same disunity and inability to act seems so disingeneous on the part of far too many Europeans, among others.
IamKing: ./configure with=common-sense
hahahah
Justinfra what your point
iamking… im thinking background app, because i did restart this time
ah ok I had NOD32 running in the background…I’ve never seen it fuck up an install yet while it was running background scans on the installers I’ve used so far
timur…. that wasn’t the point i was making.. I was simply pointing out that the US could pretty much ignore International law if it wanted to and that its allies could not
well, as of 1999, the Brits apparently had Hercules C-130 aircraft. Dunno if they had them in 1994.
Justinfra we had no right to go in to bosina Justinfra that was a war to wag the dog on the tail instead of messing with bosina
point is, they weren’t willing to take any losses militarily to save the lives of 100s of 1000s of Yugoslavs, which..says a lot about Europe.
An al Qaeda operative wanted in connection with two simultaneous U.S. Embassy bombings was killed in Pakistan, U.S. officials have confirmed. DNA tests confirmed Muhsin Musa Matwalli Atwah died in an airstrike by
gopp.. wrong.. it is every nations legal responsibility to try to prevent genocide
we should of gone else where like north korea right
lol
Justinfra right we fought the wrong war
well, I disagree with gopp on that one.
Justinfra north korea or iraq
where the fuck do they get all this DNA from?
timur.. well not going to argue there.. many nations in the EU are against pretty mcuh any military action
Justinfra rember clinton indirectly forced congress to shutdown federal goverment
they kept talkin about DNA testing for OBL a while back
from cells!
another question, why do i keep swearing?
prolly matched his siblings
allan5oh i fucking don’t know, for fucking christ shit allah’s fucking sake
gopp.. i find it really hard to understand yoru view on Iraq…. the occupation has been a fuck up.. and yet u still think it was right.. even knowing the WMD issue was irrelevant
well, that just bolsters the point about the incompatibility of ‘legality’ and ‘righteous or sensible action in the geopolitical sphere’.
bastard
or if not incompatibility, then irrelevance.
timur.. yes. byt my point is that if the US wants allies then it has to appreciate other nations cannot ignore Int Law the same way
Justinfra we didn’t go to iraq for wmd, thus I never ar gue that point. FUthermore iraq is not a fuckup, the liberal media say it a fuckup, but it unture….
where is the international law? is it some body of rules?
Justinfra unless you belive the liberal media which I don’t
gopp.. iraq is one massive fuck up.. how bad does it have to get before u think its a fuck up?
i still say the best move right now is to pull out of SA
Justinfra that s ubjective subjective
used to be about politeness at sea
Justinfra that not a an abouslute truth
gopp: have you had your head in the sand lately? every few days official report iraq is on the brink of chaos.
nor is an objective view Justinfra
I watched “Flags of our Father”, where the US had 26,000 casulties to seize a single tiny island.. I realized.. the merits of a war, or a battle, is not determined by the body bag count
gopp.. so subjectively tell me how bad iraq has to get to be a fuck up?
officials;
Justinfra well it has to be at level that one couldl say the whole country is at wwar
lupine.. so what have u gained from the 600,000 casualties in Iraq?
and uncontrable
ok, you’ve totally missed the point. Since legality didn’t spur the Europeans to action in their very own backyard, how relevant is it?
which it is it how
the answer is not much.
Justinfra you rant and moan on liberal media studies
in the first landing wave, of 3400 US troops.. only ~600 survived.
and liberal bias Justinfra it not a fuckup becuase you say so Justinfra you where against the war the get go
whether or not the cause was just is not determined by body counts.
it’s not about liberal anything, it’s a failure to understand what actually drives events, and legality isn’t a significant one.
from the fucken geto go, you always be against the war
sorry gopp, lupine.. timer first…
it’s symptomatic of other functions, not causal.
Justinfra define me why iraq is a fuckup how oso and why and why it only been three years and you call it a fuckup it was 6 months in to iraq and you called it a fuckup
well, it’s not a wild success, really.
timur… the fact that invading Iraq without a legal affirmation.. ie UN res was a major factor in the Labour Party in the UK supporting or not supporting the invasion of Iraq
it was 6 month before iraq and you liberal where against going to iraq Justinfra you where agfainst going to iraq to being with you are a liberal so you have a agenda you agenda from the get go say iraq is fuckup
im still waiting for us to be greeted at liberators.
is to say
sure, but that wasn’t about legality, as such. Legality is supported when it matches political goals, and opposed when it doesn’t, or just ignored.
at/as
Justinfra and we legally had to go and enforce un resoultions and Justinfra we where being attacked by saddam milltary our airplanes where being attacked that fact Justinfra to do nothing is wrong
it wasn’t about legal affirmation, it was about British domestic politics, and pandering to the isolationists and Muslim parts of the British polity, and their own collective sense of guilt about their historic contribution to making Iraq what it was.
our airplanes which had been bombing iraq illegally for 12 years
the Brits established the borders of Iraq, as they did, with some collaboration with France and to an extent Russia, of every country in the Middle Easst.
timur.. but legality doesn’t exist in a vacuum.. i am just pointing out that legality is more important in other nations.. the US can do whatever it wants.. we cannot.. the UK invaded Egypt along with france and Israel.. it was against int law.. and more importantly.. against US policy.. we got sent home with our tails between our legs.. we cannot do whatever we want
it’s not more important. It’s perceived as more important, because legality as it’s currently constructed serves the domestic political agenda and sentiment.
gopp.. we were not doing nothing.. the UN had sanctions inplace to punish the iraqis and stop them rebuilding
bbl 6 o’clock jews are on news*
right, the UK and France together aren’t as strong as the US, but it wasn’t just the US that opposed the Sinai invasion, but the USSR as well. Those are two powers any coalition of Europeans cannot afford to ignroe. anyway, brb.
timur.. let me try a different tack.. maybe u are right.. its not legality per se.. but the point is that the EU is not all-powerful militarily the smae way the us is.. the EU has to act with regard to how more powerful actors perceive things.. we limited in a way that the us is not
Justinfra and did the sancations work NO, and did sadam milltary attack us yes and did we punish saddam yes and has iraq be rid of
and even within those limits, you’re terribly ineffective, again per the Yugoslav example. and as far as British mil. transport:
gopp.. sorry.. in what way did the sanction not work?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armstrong_Whitworth_AW.660_Argosy#Specifications_.28Argosy_C_Mk.1.29 one of several examples. four up to 69 troops or 28,930 lb (13,150 kg) of cargo
Justinfra and did the sancations work NO, and did sadam milltary attack us yes and did we punish saddam yes and has iraq be rid of ” un oil for food scandal” yes, and has iraq be safer under our troops in most parts of iraq yes, “no rape rooms” “no gassing of kurds”… Justinfra and did the sancations work NO, and did sadam milltary attack us yes and did we punish saddam yes and has iraq be rid of ” un oil for food scandal” yes, and has iraq be safer under our troops in most parts of iraq yes, “no rape rooms” “no gassing of kurds”…/////
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Belfast 4 ( two pilots, a flight engineer, navigator) + air quartermaster max payload 75,000 lb (34,000 kg)
tim.. yes.. the EU was terribly ineffecitve.. and I tried to explain why.. but that still leaves the point that the US needs allies.. and those allies are not above the wished of other actors
Justinfra yes the same un who didn’t enforce it own resoultion 1441 Justinfra we had to enforce for them
plenty of capacity to bring troops and tanks to Yugo, if the will existed, which of course it didn’t.
gopp: eh.. careful there dude. objectively homicides of civilians in iraq are way up from pre-occupation.
kinky on msnbc!
gopp… the sanctions stopped iraq rebuilding its military and becoming a threat. in that way.. THEY WORKED
Justinfra no it didn’t you got proof of that
haha kinky friedman is awesome
that’s right, but those wishes aren’t purely driven by legal, so much as political considerations. That’s the point.
Justinfra it didn’t stop sadam milltary from attacing our planes no
ill vote for kinky… anyone but Rick Perry..
lol gopp.. off course i haev proof.. the iraqi military crumbled it was so weak.. could it invade anyone else.. no
Justinfra yes liberal media reports
wow its 45 degrees in st louis, and people are all parka’ed up
and liberal professors studies
scarves, mitts, toques
We need to flush ‘em all out and get all Kinkys all the time
which tend to not realy do intecual studies
24/7
allan - well what do you expect its 45 degrees and gonna get colder hi TWO
tim… i disagree.. the EU did not haev the transport abilities or the air support to take action againsgt Serbia without suffering very large losses
Kaliuna
45 degrees is when you stop wearing shorts
Justinfra the means which they conduct t he studies are flawed
pussies
I just showed you some ways in which it was able to transport large payloads.
they Justinfra reach a certain results, by only doing a certain stuides a cretain way that not real scince
Hell, we should just flush ‘em all out and pick people out of the phone book. I’d bet they’d do a better job than the swine we have in congress and senate.
Justinfra stop ranting
Surely, they couldn’t do worse
tim.. u can’t get much in a hercules.. certainly not a Challenger 2
so what flavor are we discussing or debating tonight
and if the will existed to use them, I bet the US could’ve been convinced, if a good case had been made that Europe was serious, to support the use of such aircraft.
Justinfra stop ranting, face fact and read and objectively read
Twobar, You plaigarized that from William F Buckley! Shame on you! Twobar my man!
FREE!! hi hi
Hey Kali!
gopp.. i did not rant and do not need to rant.. i have demonstrated that the sanction worked and that leaves u with no argument
FreeTimer,heh, no, I dont think I did. I think I made that one up.
the other point is that Europe wasn’t willing to take any losses whatsoever to protect civilians in a horrible civil war in Europe.
Justinfra how did the sanction work if they had shells and other stuff to make wmd
how noble, how brave, how strong Europe is.
Justinfra how did the sanaction work if they shot at our planes and boys
tim.. well thats correct… not denyng it.. the EU was cowardly
Twobar actually Bill Buckley is famous for saying that about 30 years ago.. But you might of thought it up too
Justinfra how did the sanaction work, if they had un oil for food scandal, and corruptions with france and germany
gopp.. since when did the sanctions even mention shooting at US fighter bombers?
Justinfra how did they work Justinfra no the fly zone restriction which saddam milltary broke we where enforcing the no fly zone
gopp… how many US planes were shot down in the no fly zone?
and we where being attacked Justinfra ask Lupine| his cousin was on that mission
gopp.. i dont; have to ask.. i know the answer.. NONE
those Justinfra oh yea, where did you get the answer NONE Justinfra so you claim they where not shot at
gopp.. then give me the name of someone who was shot down
so you claim they where not shot at did I say shot down I said shot at
FreeTimer, dam. I must have gotten it from him and then forgotten
gopp.. i am pointing out the Iraqi military threat was so puny it did not shoot down ONE us fighter
FreeTimer, actually I’m glad someone of his caliber says it too
Justinfra it didn’t you got proof of that you m ade a claim that they didn’t shoot us down
gopp.. did it shoot ONE down?
right, and that cowardice on Europe’s part resulted in 100s of 1000s of European deaths. And it was all perfectly legal.
back up your claim Justinfra I never said it shut one down I said they shut at us that all that all I made as a claim
so, for the third, or is it fourth? time. .legality isn’t the primary consideration in policymaking.
your claim was that they never shut down can you back up that claim
tim.. sure… and if what u are arguing is that the law alone does not stop peopel dying, well I am not going to argue against that
Justinfra can you prove a negative sancation alone don’t stop un for oil scandal Justinfra let speak of that in relation to the sanaction and t he corruption and how much $$$ saddam took
gopp.. u can prove that the iraqi military was so dangerous it could shoot down US planes by simply naming the pilot who was shot down.. but u can’t// because NONE were shot down
for oil
hmm
Justinfra it was so dangerous that it gass kurds Justinfra it raped females Justinfra it killed many who opposed saddam in iraq
Despite illegal resupply of French and Russian surface to air missiles to Iraq, the NFZ operations had the effect of reducing Iraqi ability to counter air strikes prior to the 2003 invasion of Iraq… thats how well the sanctions worked heh
gopp.. it gassed kurds in the 80s when Saddam was our ally
I feel like the Gop will win the Senate easy now.. I still think they will lose the house.
not only does it not stop people from dying, it doesn’t do much of anything, unless a comprehensive and fully observed system exists to support legality, which of course it doesn’t; at least not yet.
Justinfra and you s upport that Justinfra you support the gassing when congress was ran by democarts rember that was when congress was ran by democarts
I doubt Justin supports the gassing of Kurds.
tim.. certainly.. as we both agreed, the US is completely above International Law and can pretty much do what it wants… and as I pointed out, less powerful allies are not so above the law and can’t just do whatever they want
and yeah, Saddam was our ally against Iran, and both parties were down with that. it’s not that ‘the US is above international law’
hmm tim.. in what way is the US answerable to international law? in GAT trade negotiations maybe.. and thats about it
it’s that ‘no nation that exercises power in any meaningful way’ is really restricted by it, and further, those who consider themselves to be so restricted are really just using legality as a pathetic and cowardly excuse for inaction even when it’s both just and necessary. and that’s only because it accords with our interests. China also isn’t a really big observer of int’l law, nor India, nor Russia, nor any great power. this isn’t a new dynamic.
Justinfra Please note that Iraq violated 16 United Nation resolutions over a period of 10 years. The only reason Saddam Hussein allowed United Nations inspectors to search for weapons of mass destruction was due to the fact that the United States had Iraq surrounded by war ships and over 100,000 U.S. troops. He had ordered them out of Iraq and took actions to block them from inspecting sites?……
smaller nations also contravene it all the time.
that the fact baby Justinfra can you face the fact
so, big powers ignore it, small ones ignore it, which leads to the conclusion that it’s really not that meaningful.
ttim.. ok.. i sort of agree there.. it comes down to how much punishment can be inflicted to make nations toe the line.. legal or otherwise.. but i still stand by my point.. the US is harder to keep in line
Justinfra did you read what I posted
to the extent it can be, it’s to validate policies that are expedient and convenient for domestic political purposes.
hmm, maybe I”ll try and old version of Eudora for email
when it doesn’t suit those, it’s ignored.
Justinfra we had ships in the seas, that why saddam allowed inspectors
gopp… i still haven;t noticed u explaing why Iraq was such a threa that invasion and a fucked up occupation was the only answer
harder than whom? Russia, China?
becuase he was scared of us
Timur just got back from his “Men’s Sensitivity Weekend”
we’re stronger than they are, so, in that sense, yes.
Justinfra fuck you you antiamerican Justinfra your antiamerican I give you facts, and still your ant
How do you maintain USA presence in the face of an IRAQ civil war (internal conflict that isnt our biz)? Answer: Divide the country into three countries and no longer call it a civil war.
but proprotionately, we’re actually within the norm.
that makes you an antiamerican I give facts, we conclude that we are very pro defense of america and you then say NO NO NO NO your wrong or I still haven’t this or that
so, the equation seems to be ‘power and the willingness to use it is inversely proportional to ‘international law’ such as it is.
I told he attakced our planes saddam milltary attacked our planes
they took our jobs!
that not enough
gopp.. so.. lets get this straight.. we invaded Iraq to stop them shooting at US planes? lol zaw
pretty much a truism of political science, and not sure why it took so long to get there, but there it is.
tim.. and..e ryeah.. i thnk thats about it
the liberal rant is to keep, a brutal dicator saddam in power Justinfra, just like they did in north korea
