10.23.07
you can talk about morale all you want my complaint is that morons like you use manipulative language to present
trapezoid I agree. But I think it should be above the table, so to speak
Let the free market work It does work
Hello, freetimer.
Just make them legal so they can be identified and taxes taxes
how many americans are out of work due to illegal laborers?
taxed hey Yaak!
if any at all?
Damm I cant type
4.4% unemployment rate which is a low number
Trap, None unless katey gets her way.. And pases fucking labor laws
what is that legal term describing the requirement to work if able?
We already labor laws why the fuck would we need more ?
freetimer not passing laws
Its a free market
katey did not say that
enforcing the ones we already have
I think the free market needs a little help from time to time. Due to the nature of economic power it isn’t as free as we might hope. Some regulation helps keep it from thermal runaway.
she just asked for the enforcement of the existing laws
You think they should work without paying taxes?
She said they were underpaid which proves she is ignorant about illegal immigrants I know them and speak to them in spanish every day
all of them?
I know the whole game
Or just the ones in your community?
No I dont know them all
haha
But I know the whole game
most illegals who are paid by check pay INTO SS and Medicare
I knwo who does what where and when and how thier system works completely, I know how they get in, how they get id, How much it costs. I would be a great INS agent but I am on the side of capitalism
not pay taxes
only a very small minority are underpaid. and usually they are victims of other illegals Just like chinese sweat shops
but what of the ones who are paid under the table so no taxes are paid?
99% are owned by chinese immigrants
Knowing that kind of information and not giving it to authorities is risky
Americans pay fair and pay well
i dealt with chinese sweat shops for years in new york
Obviously occasionally you have some exploitative prick but he gets what he pays for they will not work hard for shitty pay
you know how much clothes would cost without them?
They can get $3 an hour in mexico They dont come here to get $3 an hour The come here because they can get $6 minimum in a car wash and 8-15 in construction AND 12dollars and uppicking fruits and vegetables
it aint $12
I know their business so intimately I almost feel mexican sometimes..
my friend in cali grows raisins for kellogs, and it aint $12 i assure you
Since I was 8 years old I worked with them Starting in the cherry fields. Orchards actually
picking raisins is not the same as doing construction
How many legally pay taxes into the system?
most
Brak, Most because they get fake id
trapezoid i never said it was.
isn’t $6 below california minimum wage?
They have to because the penalty for employers is too high if they get caught so they demand fake id RVD nope
oh my god this venison is good.
its $5 something
5.15? like federal
but often they get like room and board and $5 an hour
?
which is suddenly pretty good
the mexicans that come up for harvest at my friends and others farms in Cali can expect $6-7/hr. and then there’s a broker type person who takes some $ also
all the produce they can eat
I know a grandmother who is living in comfort, hell luxury she eats and lives with doctors and their children and gets a nice stipend.
not all illegal labor picks fruit
penalizing employers for illegal work is truly backwards
yea like trap said
in new york there is a huge community of illegal brazilians
some mow lawns etc
they have businesses and pay taxes, etc
oh yea, they do cleaning… a lot of them
many work in food service and as domestic help
I am a space alien.
using phoney ID
We have brazilians too they make a fortune too They do a lot of hauling and stuff
yup
some of those brazilian chicks are hot….
i know not all illegal labor picks fruit. my point was they sure as hell dont get $12/hr, the ones that do
yes they are
They come in and charge $4-500 to load a truck and haul it off on a site
if only i spoke portuguese
They work very fast and do very well
in california and a few others? sure they do. In florida, however, they’re lucky to get 5-6
the point is, more labor means a stronger economy
portyougweese!
why are people against having a strong economy?
ft, did you ever see the dole banana video of costa rica?
I dont speak portugese but I can speak spanish, not well but we can communicate fine.
they pick and load by 1pm 4-5 hours multiple trucks
can someone plz tell me who has more power congress or senate, thanks in advance
and if they did not pick those raisins, who would?
Lupine| you can take it up with my buddy who farms for Kellogs. he’s on irc, and will tell you everything you wanna know about illegals as farm labor in cali
They praise me often for my spanish which I dont think I am worthy off, I think really what it is My prenunciation is very good more than my vocabulary
There was a California politician on the radio this morning, saying that the first 100 hours of a Pelosi Congress would see a national minimum wage bill on the little dictator’s desk for signing.
people on welfare
same
effectively? the same.
heh right
whose desk?
YEah I sound like a freaking mexican when I talk spanish
in theory, the house can initiate impeachment.. while the senate confirms, etc
thanks
I sound like a Spaniard, apparently
you do know that welfare has changed?
why would she put the bill on Chavez’s desk?
Former Texas Governor Bush’s desk.
omg really?
i bet you look like one too freetrade with the tan you must have from construction work
Do you mean you get all freaked out when you speak Spanish?
geeljire i.e. there are specific roles of the House versus the Senate.. but in terms of laws.. both have to sign the same bill.
RVD, All the women are after me..
yup….. apparently the news has not gotten to all
The little dictator.
Isn’t that Dicktator?
wasn’t that like, 1994?
heh
thanks for the explanation
are those her words, or your own opinion?
98 i think
I prefer “Dugout Dick” for that particular capo.
ah ok
still…that’s 8 years ago
Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996.
ok there you go 10 years ago
10.. a healthy median
with 4.4% unemployment and a retiring baby-boom generation, the USA needs labor
Well, I started up a dust storm here of controversy.
why people want to restrict it is beyond me
I should try to mellow it out now
Hell, Bush doesn’t even rate describing as a capo.
less labor means a slowing economy
No but seriously I am dissapointed when republicans are not pro business pro capitalist..
He’s just a bought-bitch politician.
Also I dont like Republicans being comfortable in Washington
right now we have about 3.5% growth in gdp
sweet
i tend to take the word of a 3rd generation farmer who has no problem admitting to *Needing* illegal labor over other peoples words that aremostly political opinion
compared to europe and japan
I want my republicans to be uncomfortable in Washington DC they are supposed to be reformers not hey this is a nice chair, I think I lll invite a lobbyist over.
with less of a work force, our gdp would slow to 2-2.5% year over year
Republicans have lost that spirit they had when newt had his revolution Regardless of what newt did or didnt do, agree with him or disagree Republcians ran on reform And they started out that way And then they got comfortable in Washington And in my view a republican should never be comfortable as a congress person One thing about Frist, he said he would do two terms and volunteer for term limits, he kept his wod
Vote against incumbents “unless their name is Ron Paul,” on the principle of term limits alone.
I wish all republicans would in fact I wish they would make term limits constitutional law Some of them got in there promised to pass term limits and then voted against it Thats why i am angry with republicans
ft i have lots more reasons
disagree. no term limits for reps and no term limits for judges.
We were always the opposition party dems held the congress for 40 years
we need to increase presidential term limit, so bush can have another 4 years
but i’m not sure that this is the time for the upheaval yet
and when we got it we started out with the right motives.
to easy to stack things
Congress was never intended to be a mealticket. It was intended to be a citizen’s duty to be performed, then left for regular successors.
Then we got comfortable and fat and I dont like that.
Congress has become a corrupt, criminal trough.
4yrs is too short to get the job done
due to the plans on iraq which will be far reaching if we cut-n-run/redeploy/whatever you want to call it
I dont like politicians and republicans should run for politics to de politicise it, not make it more political.
yeah ‘Anyone who wants to run for office should be disqualified’ parahprase
someone actually got a measure on the ballot here to give judges term limits. how stupid bsomeone actually got a measure on the ballot here to give judges term limits. how stupid/b
federal judges are in office for life
I want justices in office for life
The people today look at the Congressional career of the best excuse ever for term limits, the late senile Senator Strom Thurmond, as an idea to uphold, for Christ’s sake.
I dont want them moved by politics I dont want them changed by whims of the day or by political pressure
The people deserve whatever corrupt, criminal Congress they get.
I want judges to be judicious literally and stick to the letter of the law
congress might be corrupt, but it is not criminal
I hoping this ‘marriage ammendment’ issue goes down in flames tomorrow
My only problemw ith judges are ones who are derelict int heir duty liek Rose Byrd of California who we recalled in an initiative drive.
trapezoid - tell the to Bob Ney.
we took her out of the supreme courtr
you have a marriage amendment?
She refused to enforce the death penalty
VA has the most hostile anti-gay legislation in the country…and now people are trying to cram it into the state constitution
Like it or not if the death penalty is a law a judge MUST FOLLOW it, or hey are derelict in their duties
it never came close to
if they can not enforce the laws they need to resign as a matter of conscience
SadeClown, Thrumond was not a crook. If you want to discuss term limits, look no further than tip o’neil, John Kerry, and Chuck Schumer
I do not consider preserving marriage “anti gay”
Oregon is a very strange, even aberrant state
not subvert the system and the will of the people.
“Oh, don’t give me term limits!” My Congressman and Senator take care of me!”
We took her out of office..
regarding its laws, anyway
So thats how you get rid of federal and supreme court judges who dont act right
bud` why would it not fail? Because VA is a fairly conservative state
“They keep my pork barrel full to the brim, damn you!”
allowing “civil unions” which give the same legal rights to the partners is a good thing
or Ted Kennedy
freetimer i agree, i’m sick of judges not applying the law as they do not “like” it.. [ but it is constitutional ]
i’ll be voting to define marriage as man + woman tomorrow. call me a bigot i guess!
My brother is more leftwing than katey here
absolutely, no problem with it.
but apparently THAT seems to give some people a problem, too
katey looks like a rightwing chrisitan religious fanatic compared to him
seems to give the more militant pro-homosexuals the most problem.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/pfjunkie/politics/Priest.jpg
ill never understand why people are so interested in other peoples relationships or marriages
and yet he is a lawyer. And yet he always follows the law, regardless of whether or not he agrees with it
Get over the phony Left-Right paradigm, already.
which i cannot understand
A lot of people are more left wing than me
You’re being used.
he has kicked the 9th circuit courts ass 100 times and yet he agrees with them on everything But he gets pissed off that the 9th intentionally doesnt follow the law
hey
and he says its indeed intentional that they know better
?
oops http://thrillingwonder.blogspot.com/2006/11/new-breakthroughs-in-mathematics.html
it is easy to understand. It is not about having equal “rights”. it is about forcing every member of society to “accept” them. i.e. they are highly intolerant of others viewpoints.
“hi, i cant be bothered to mind my own business, so im gonna go and impose my sense of morality upon you”
Katey-, true! But you have your moments 
I love the 2nd to last line: “Mexican officials said Morton did not have an FM-3 work permit. hahaa
dominated by right-wingnuts.
Timur-: hey
When the supreme court rules it becomes the law of the land.. It is automatically codified.. It is unquestionable until they rule otherwise.
check this out: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/pfjunkie/politics/Priest.jpg
yea, the irony
Mexican priest working in Mexico deported for not having a work permit
bud` the VA ammendment doesn’t stop at that. It mirrors recently passed legislation that, in addition to defining marriage as hetero only, also nullifies any legal agreements between people of the same gender witch might approximate the benefits of legal marriage
And the 9th defies even the most simple and most obvious precriptions of the supreme court
if Mexico can enforce their laws, why can’t we?!
disbelief, now now, be a good monkey.
i.e. buying a house together
Timur- were you here when I read some quotes from a major “new math” highschool algebra book?
i doubt it will pass
trapezoid I hope not.
AND TO MY brother it wastes his time, he has to work harder, ultimatley they are overturned anyway, and he has to work overtime cosntantly without pay
trapezoid the legislation itself passed.
see what the electorate does not their reps who vote publicly
Katey - That will be an ideal target for litigation going to the SC, because its so blatantly discriminotory.
being an attorney for the government is not a peice of cake job they actually earn their money
I suggest a channel name change to #non-issues.
disbelief but if it’s codified into the state constitution…then what? disbelief can SC still strike it?
yes
Can anyone here, for instance, state the gist of the Military Commissions Act?
if it is found to be unconstitutional by the USSC, it goes down the drain
katey - no matter, it can still be challenged. the state constitutions can’t be in conflict with the federal one.
ok
A serious student of American politics doesn’t waste time with gay marriage. Next issue.
this isn’t just a marriage issue
serious like the sad clown
What is “facilitate bringing to justice terrorists and other unlawful enemy combatants through full and fair trials by military commissions, and for other purposes.”?
Later all I almost forgot I need to do some things.. I might have been here debating all night long and missed everything uLater all I almost forgot I need to do some things.. I might have been here debating all night long and missed everything/u
Unless they’re a gay serious student of American politics
CYA
sadeclown - hate to break it to you, but American conservatives are obsessed with homosexuals.
it gets into people’s rights to set up their personal and legal affairs as they see fit at least with regard to VA
Get to work!
Welp
My movers wish I was dead.
They had to move a ~600-700lb server rack up a flight of stairs. 
don don’t piss off the movers they get paid by the hour
sounds like mass round-ups to me.
The movers got tipped $100. They’re good now. 
what does that passage say to you?
astrodog - that’s just the wight of the rack ? good god
when my husband and I moved house this past spring we did everything ourselves….and we didn’t have even ONE fight amazing miraculous even
Katey- wheres the full text of this VA bill?
Its a Sun one with cooling and power distribution.
er measure
“sounds like mass round-ups of dissidents.”
bud^ I don’t know where it’s available online
k, ill find it
I don’t know. The whole thing is pretty tough. It is the intention of certain enemies of the US to attack civilians by leveraging the openness of our society and the general legal rights of citizens and non-citizens. It is a tough decision howe to deal with that. While on the one hand I don’t think that suspending rights of citizens is appropriate, I also don’t think that doing nothing is appropriate. I am glad I am NOT in charge.
dont see how you can nullify personal agreements between 2 people at all. I suspect things may be out of context
The only thing the so-called terrorists serve as, is a phony excuse to repress dissent in America.
brb
bud^ well, it’s already state law
I can’t agree with that. I think there is a genuine threat.
anyway, it’s dinner time. ttyl
Yaakov, the tools to deal with that threat aren’t always being used correctly though.
The genuine threat is from within and behind government.
For example, iirc one of the first uses of the patriot act was seizing a server with copyrighted movie content on it. That’s obviously not about terrorism.
I don’t think that our government is competent, unfortunately. On the other hand I think that certain organizations are, and are probably helping to prevent new attacks.
Yaakov, I hope so.
I am VERY surprised that there aren’t massive wildfires burning in California right now.
A real government would screen every last human being who came across the border from Canada or Mexico.
If ONE arsonist can do so much, imagine a private plane with some primitive fire bombs.
Eastern Germany couldn’t pull that off.
“Any marriage entered into by persons of the same sex in another state or jurisdiction shall be void in all respects in Virginia and any contractual rights created by such marriage shall be void and unenforceable.”
Would it be feasible to somehow make it illegal to tack on completely unrelated bills onto larger bills? Such as internet gambling to port security, or alaskan oil drilling to defense spending
that does not prohibit 2 people from having personal agreements between them
imagine a commercial jetliner with full fuel tanks flying into a huge building!
I think you could cause more damage with a concerted firesetting spree in the west.
The technology is there; the will is not, and the uncorrupt, non-criminal government is not.
The technology really isn’t there.
some early voting in FL is out.. Absentee ballots (thru Thursday, Nov. 2 only) 13, 584 Democrats, 13,746 Republicans & 3,128 other. TOTAL: 30,458
I won’t make excuses for facilitating terrorist importation, like Cheney and his backers do.
nobody would care, internationally
miami-dade: Absentees: 17,390 Democrats, 36,248 Republicans; & 7,191 other. TOTAL: 60,829.
bud`, that sounds hella unconstitutional.
i agree there culd be more damage, but the terrorists want publicity, not to actually cause damage
No, my friend, start with delivering Cheney to the verdict delivered against Saddam some hours ago.
States have to accept other states documents.
P_O not if you actually understand it
and knocking down the WTC has WAY more imagery to watch worldwide than some forest fire in california
http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2006-10-29-1.html
Its like most state law… destroyed on appeal.
you cannot indict cheney for anything, as he is only VP
Months of wild fires and thousands (tens of thousands?) of detroyed homes would be devestating. It would be relatively easy to do, too. I can’t see why it hasn’t been done. I don’t think it would even require them to get caught.
if you want to indict the USA for torture, you must indict the president
you need to have another look at the Constitution.
i’ve read it, thanks the VP has no power
There is no office beyond indictment in the United States. None.
you better read up on that
Our House is going to be a very liberal house
oh
You do that.
you are not reading what i typed you mean the PRESIDENT can be indicted? wow sad clown is way more knowledgable than me, i shall just sit and learn from him
Yaakov, Al Qada would have the resources to start fires in many locations at once too.
Then I’ll break it down for you, Son.
Yes, it really wouldn’t take much. Especially by air, with small planes.
you keep missing the point
You bring charges in the Congress. Congress decideds whether or not to impeach (accuse).
I don’t think so. I understand what you are saying, I am disagreeing.
it is like in israel……suicide bombers blow themselves up in the most public of places, opting for the publicity of their act over the actual # of people they kill
If the House impeaches, the Lower Body then sends the impeached up to the Senate for trial.
what is congress?
The Senate either convicts, or acquits.
wow
I understand your point, I just don’t agree with you.
Article IV Section 1 “Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state. And the Congress may by general laws prescribe the manner in which such acts, records, and proceedings shall be proved, and the effect thereof.” I’m not seeing how the text of that Virginia law doesn’t conflict with the “Full faith and credit” bit.
sad clown is describing the impeachment process i better take notes ok “if the shoe fits, you must acquit”
P_O how is a contract between 2 people a judicial proceeding?
a contract of mariage is a public act marriage as it must be sanctioned by the state
bud`, it’s a public act and a record (the marriage license)
stretching a bit far
not at all
How is a marriage license not a record?
Pipe down, Son; you’lll learn something here. If the Senate convicts, the President (and/or Vice President) is removed from office. At this point, criminal charges can be brought against (indictment) the former office-holder. Are we clear now, Son?
marriage as defined as a man and a woman? heh
actually, “full faith and credit” is what upsets the anti-gay-marriage folks the most
That bit of the constitution is the same reason why people are still married when they go from state to state.
you really are slow…… but keep it up you MUST be a paralegal
bud`, doesn’t matter what it’s defined as.
*sings* Frank Sinatra “I Did it My Way”
The record from another state must be given full faith and credit.
indeed
P_O yes it does, because the argument was that this VA law goes beyond just recognizing marriage as a man and woman. it attempts to nullify personal contracts. Im not arguing the ‘marriage’ bit, im arguing what katey bought up
full faith and credit basically ensures that no single state can make laws which contradict those of another state
IamKing, Get bent, you greasy, mouse-eaten rat-catcher
You aren’t REALLY SadeClown’s son, right?
I’m arguing that the law would be unconstitutional because it’s not giving full faith and credit to the records and public acts of another state. uI’m arguing that the law would be unconstitutional because it’s not giving full faith and credit to the records and public acts of another state./u
enjoy! they’re better than gerbils!
IamKing, you agreeing with me is kinda scary
muwahahahahahah
so, las vegas divorces are recognized in every state, even when those other states might demand a 2 year separation before granting a divorce uso, las vegas divorces are recognized in every state, even when those other states might demand a 2 year separation before granting a divorce/u doubtful, as my father is dead
ph33r the powah of Taco Hell
hahahah
hmmm
a personal contract anyone can walk into a lawyers office and have drawn up is an entirely different issue than the man + woman = marriage debate. so anyways. a personal contract anyone can walk into a lawyers office and have drawn up is an entirely different issue than the man + woman = marriage debate. so anyways.
actually it is interesting that there were not huge protests over nevada’s divorce laws by conservative christians
Well, it is unfortunate to hear that but I think it is a relief that SadeClown is not your Father. bWell, it is unfortunate to hear that but I think it is a relief that SadeClown is not your Father./b
i agree with you
points in IamKings direction…..
but i am afraid that sad clown might be one of MY sons
not bad….3 1/2 hours to put up 30 auctions
i left so many around the country when i used to hitchhike as a kid
OH NOES! say it ain’t so! trapezoid bred?!?
damn even yam-king might be my kid, although that would really be scary
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-16746274605915898&sourceid=docidfeed&hl=undefined - Freedom is under attack!!
IamKing as my kid..easy to handle…wheres that 2 x 4 Xnomar is Malcoms half brother
katherine harris is supposedly gonna lose BIG wonder why?
because she is as bad a hack as Nelson
could it be her certification of shrub’s election results in florida so fast?
any losses the republican take will be reported as Big Big Big.
Neslon has 20 million dollars of blood money no crapezoid….
neslon
trapezoid she has been elected once since then, so, so much for that fucked up theory.
now THERE’s a name
she did the right theng then….
hmmmm
stopped SCOFLA(W) cold
so if an op calls me “crapezoid”, can i insult him without him then kicking me?
bwahahahah…I used to respect Henry Rollins as a comedian…now he’s just a raging, blathering idiot
or is this the same #politics of yore?
IamKing I have found most comedians are.
slip of keyboard…sorry about that
well ok then
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y66RVjt-n8U the Reverend Horton Heat! WOOO!
Donkeys hoping third time is the charm
that reminds me of something too…
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7236791207107726851&sourceid=docidfeed&hl=en-CA
IamKing..ye present??
how many times?
IamKing….are you here or raping your sceptre?
trap .. hehe .. still stuck with FreeTrade and me
L0c0 gets the occasional boot just for GP
well you and ft are decent when it comes to things like that
IamKing yeh, i got that one dowloading 2 watch later
trap .. thx
I am here momentarily…I am about to grab a bite to eat…and no, TomM is not on my menu…heh
Iamking…good
absentee ballots already counted in FL indicate republican edge about the same as in 2004
IamKing..though at times some of the peole you verbally excoriate walk into it…
the donks will sue to have overseas absentee ballots struck down, again
I am requesting that you ease up a bit on the vitriol…okay?
IamKing dont blame me for your actions
14 A heads up .. tomorrow is Election Day .. #politics may go 3 invite only 14 or we may 3 limit 14 the number of people allowed in. We will host 3#elections14 for channel overflow. If you cannot get in here .. go to 3#elections14 with an “s”. 14 Those of you who are regulars and have been added to starly’s userlist for #politics .. please confirm your access to starly BEFORE tomorrow night .. just 4/msg starly voice14. She will voice you even if you are already voiced. 14In addition, if the channel is +i just 4/msg starly invite14 and she will auto invite you to to #politics. Plan to invite and voice yourselves. 14 Most important of all .. 5 Don’t forget to VOTE!
ok…I guess
WarpSpeed damn diebold absentee ballots!
ok IamKing?? thank you
oops, i went to #selections instead
I said as much to male sevice as well
bud, next time you hear a Donkey claim they support the troops, ask them how they feel about voting booths on Military bases.
ahhh. first real polls coming in and say the opposite of cnn/nbc/gallup/aol as usual
i support the troops by wearing yellow ribbons
the military really should not be allowed to vote so say many military leaders
lol
trapezoid offers up the typical donkey conventional wisdom regarding our volunteer army.
what kinda bs is that?
it interferes with their fighting ability
Dems love to build military bases … in their home districts
it is not my opinion
trapezoid wishes for all military personel to sacrifice their rights so he feels better
you know me very well, i can see that
call em as I smell em
are you a friend of sad clown?
3Abusive domain or user
people who imply that supporting hte troops means you must support their mession……..should…..be hated It just doesn’t make sense, we speak english…and in the english language, that sentence doesn’t make sense. A soldier’s job is not to agree or disagree with his mission, his job is to do it regardless. How can supporting the troops mean anything other than supporting them in doing their job, which has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing w
_3Josephs, Anti military donkey = no voting booths for our troopers, Pro Military Donkey = threaten to shut down the military base in their state. suna, careful, you are awfully close to making sense there
millitary is obsolete
that is sort of what the general’s whose opinion i was paraphrasing meant
60% fucking percent !
if you don’t like the idea of doing something you don’t necessarily agree with for a few years…don’t join the military. You sign up, you accept that accept that posibility i mean
because there is a factor that will either help or impede our troops in the field…that being morale…I suggest you look it up…not only that, but also the morale of our enemies that we are fighting in that battle
whoa…suna spoke some sense!!!! scareeeeeee shite!!!
true, sadly, when there was a draft in the 1960s, one had no choice
I am sorry you are too ignorant or mentally incompetent to realize that
to bad suna does not realize the DNC won’t even bother supporting the troops when they are NOT on a mission
drafts are a leftist idea
IamKing Robertson - verbal excoriation in a gentler way!
think how it was when you did not want to be in the army, but your only choice was that, or prison?
since I care about your education (and I know you don’t), I’ve gove to the effort of providing you this useful study link: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/white_house/jan-june99/indict_2-1.html
Canada
Read it and get back to me.
eisenhower had no problem with the draft
neither did FDR
Eisenhower inherited Korea
either did nixon, although he DID propose the lottery to make it more fun’
i’m sorry you can’t read. Stay on topic. Talking about the morale of the troops is valid, talking about the morale or our enimies is also valid. However, if the troops are so weak that their performance is actually effected by some of the country disagreeing with the mission…then they shouldn’t be in the armed forces to begin with. I like to think that our soldiers arn’t so weak, that’s just me though.
neither did lincoln
Poor, poor, ignorant Putz.
you seem to not have learned from history…I suggest you use Google to look up resources on a little country called “Vietnam”
truman did not attack north korea
hey trapezoid how are you
kim il sung started that one all by himself hello nyh
anyway, my point is it’s a separate discussion. You can support the troops and not agree with their mission. This is true by definition, don’t like it? fuck yourself, or speak another language or both, hell if I care
and it took a few decades of that constant morale beating, but it did eventually cause the US to pull out of Vietnam
trapezoid…odd..we pushed NK all the way out of Korea
The reason US sentiment ended Vietnam wasn’t the troops, it was leadership.
no, you go fuck yourself…wait, your head is already up your own ass…nm then
yup, until the chinese joined the NKs
actually…its the president that calls the shots…and the missions…
At which point…. problems cropped up.
leadership that was influenced by bad morale at home
the troops have no control over the mission…and they are required to follow orders
Wrong.
well, letting the president call the missions didn’t work so well for lbj in vietnam
you can talk about morale all you want, my complaint is that morons like you use manipulative language to present your argument. Why? Are you afraid that talking about the troops morale isn’t a strong enough argument on it’s own? Is this why you feel the need to pretend supporting the troops means you must support their mission?
Absolutly. The public didn’t support the war, so the leadership found it politically untennable.
The troops are required to follow orders not contradicting the Constitution,
It wasn’t moral with the troops that made us leave.
brb
Which may be coming with Iraq.
Nam?
nope, but it increased the morale of the NVA and the Viet Cong
The leadership so far hasn’t indicated its able to handle the mission, there.
lol
It was the bitching, moaning ans whining of the Hippies!
french indochina
indeed
the Iraq war is anti constitutional now? bwahahahahahahahaha how fucking bankrupt
CryHavoc subsribes to the Lieutenant Calley Theory of military duty.
lets see, LBJ lied about gulf of Tonkin….the Maine was not blown by the Spanish, what war exactly WAS fought for a just reason?
wwII
Your boy Powell was the fellow who covered up My Lai, by the way.
Bosnia
Free political discourse is more important, than the effects such discourse may have on the moral of the enemy.
so we could build an oil pipeline across the pacific
ATTICA!
I think it was the ability of the media to make the voice of the few sounds much louder than it actually was in the 60’s
To do otherwise, is to allow whoever the enemy is, to control the direction of policy in the US.
I think you mean “morale”.
!
trap WWII? even that I find questionable. the Acagi was the flag ship of the Japs iirc… where did the steel in her hull come from? Model Ts
the media giving voice to the few was a new thing
Ah hell. Both.
Hello, pilgrim`.
I am terribly sorry astrodog, that by no means we have to tolerate, or allow, the propoganda flowing from the Donkeys.
pittsburg?
Ford hola Yaakov
Yes. You DO have to tolerate and allow it. Just like we have to tolerate your propaganda, too.
